[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

Hello welcome to the dark omen community.

Theres 3 things to edt an army book, one is the picture found in dark omen\graphics\books\troops.

Second is the desciption which is a bit of a pain as it unfortunatly involves a hex editor (i use HxD, its free), write a part of the current description down you want to edit, use the hex editor to open engrel.exe and use search->string to find the correct section then you can overwrite the current decription.  Note do not change the number of bytes, so you can use the same or less amount of  space as the orignal description, but no more, just fill the extra with bank space if you description is less than the old.

Finally the easiest is the actual stats themselves using Ghabrys excellent editor which you can d/l from this site.

Experiance I tested with olly and multiplayer wise the only difference between level1 and lvl 4 units is the number of items they can hold, using lvl1 vs lvl 4 flaggellant we saw no real combat difference, it was who charged what made the most difference thou there was still some variation (dice rolling).  You can get around this by bumping up the stats yourself, eg lvl 1 merc @ 100gp, lvl 2 @ 200gp but and extra wound or whatever.

Yes leaders exist and yes they can have seperate stats and/or sprites if you wish.  I think your confusing with a fudge in the dark omen engine.  Dark Omen ignores all hits against the leader until he is the last unit in a squad.

Armour cost is max unit size * x, x = (10,30,60,100,150), x is the armour level, so to increase a squad with 10 units in it from lvl 3 to 4 = 10 * 100 = 1000gp.  and yes it is a silly system , there is no way to change the formula but for multiplayer there is the same work around i described for experiance (ie have multiple versions of the same unit, different armour, different cost)

i should be able to make it, sign me up.

I run it fine on win 7 with no problems.

I have to say it dragged on a bit but i think thats more down to first time, uncertain rules, late comers etc than down to the ruleset.

I disliked how if 2 players went over 8 on the same turn it was turn order that decided who won as it seems arbitury.  i think if 2 go over at the same time we should increase the required number of squares to 1/2 the board + 1, and / or till one player falls below the required 8.

I think Slyvania is too strong for multiple reasons (not all solvable), even with you wasting 720gp i was only able to beat you with a cheese army when you made tactical mistakes (grouping together on hill and in corner allowed me to outnumber your frontline units).

Vampire, Vampire + Teleport = your wizard dead, BGK, Requirement of muliple units to take out highend units yet 10 unit limit and map space to operate and flank with. Ghouls - the new Flaggellants.

The problems with fair omen not with the conquest setup.

Possible solutions, Vampire unable to hold items - at least makes him more vunerable to magic and less likely to get teleport and if he does has less deadly spells.  Small price increases on everything.  Ghouls reduce unit size to 14 so enemy units have chance vs fear at least for first round of combat & massive price increase, seriously they're better than wights at 540, 2 attacks such a massive advantage for a core army unit.

The greenskins need a couple of fear imune units, bigguns and 1 or more of the creatures (trolls, spiders, scorps).  I'm not keen on gobos getting the rock launcher thou i like how they are.

With only 1 unit in them you avoid that stupid bug with siege engine but they've become to delicate now, can they get another wound and 1 more toughness.

I found cannon & eleven archers a bit overpriced a small drop please (30-60gp)

I still think the undead sides should share zombies & wights.

A 4 of the same unit type limit is a good idea I dislike armies of all the same unit like the one i used.

I'll be around to make the numbers even if need be.

Dinasty (Dynasty) looks really boring skeles and sloww mummies  its not just playing as them but against them too.  Maybe have them share units from Sylvania them wraiths or wights?  In return Sylvania can have lol zombies

1) Ghouls are fine - even if you dont get the charge and dont boost them and just activate POS, they are still good troops for the money, but if you devote a bit of time to them the excell. Tactics are about making choices, including what you use and were in the battle you concentrate, if you choose not to use ghouls fine.  (Ever consider holding them back till later in the battle?), the point about being able to get str4 is that it allows them to some serious damage to high end units.

2) Yep there will likely be more HOW but im not overdoing it.  HOW is not really a tactic, it just funny  Chariot will get at least 1.

3)  I'm not, actually few units have those properties, its just that they are important units when facing stuff like biguns.  Don't just rush put the units you need to in the right places.

4)  Sorry i thought you were on about bought not raised regiments, re the dead - Yep thats the point, i dont want the situation players automatically lose if the 2 or 3 top units die off.  The dead as I call them ("raise the dead"  )  are rubbish, no toughness or armour, low leadership, the one thing the do succeed at is holding they're groud, they are fully capable of doing damage to even the toughest of units, a good undead player will use them to pin the enemies top units and give room to operate wights and the GOW/VD.  I will make them less numerous thou, and have fewer regiments raised.  But you will have to cope with the enemy player pining some of your units.  PS they are only skeleton warriors cuz I suck at drawing

The mechanics of DO encourage problems with having really powerful units basically removing the need for normal/cheaper units, Greenskins being awful, nobody buying zombies, BGK's dominating battles, wights not being used without BOD, for example.  Destroyed if routed makes the problem worse.   I will look at removing fear from some regiments to reduce their effectiveness against core units, (probobly wights, zombies, mummies, & the dead)  .

Thats how its intended (and the only way it can be tbh).  BTW for ghouls try getting the chage and hitting the boost button, that'' add +2 strength with the POS giving another 2 str that'll give you 3 x str 4 attacks.

Well the cloak spell is not 100% besides i assume you used the hellfire sword?  Every use of the sword will disable the cloak untill he recasts.  I'm not nerfing the Tank & scorp massivly but enough to stop them lasting forever.  i assume the lighting sword & banner were bugged?  The lighting should have fried your scorp within 2 or 3 rounds.  That should be fixed by reducing the mod complexity a bit.

For some reason Jero seems particulally vunerable to the "Wizard" bug, I dunno if its his connection or computer setup or what.  I think with BP pushing DO so hard is making the problem worse thou.  I wonder if he lowers his detail setting i might be better?  Anyway we'll see I'll try and catch him online sometime and test the changes.

On a side note I could do with some fairly simple sprite work if anybodies interested?  i'm also still after a mid/high level undead regiment to compete with wights, if anyone has any ideas?  PM me.

I’m surprised at Alavets comments most the army builds were very different.  True you everyone will use a range of gobos, orcs,and creatures, as the mods designed to encourages that, but the ratios and the precise units used were very different.

Before the tourney I played Olly around 20 games or so without issue, i suspect it’s because were both in the UK, if the players are separated by the Atlantic lag becomes more of an issue and its unfortunately quite easy to get DO to crash.  I’ll try pesting Alavet,  Jeroimo, or someone else who had issues when I do my next round of play testing.

Unfortunately the mod does have a bit of a learning curve, but it only takes 3 or 4 games to get over it.  Probably 6/7/8 if you’re inexperienced with DO multi.  It’s one of my regrets that I can’t do much about TBH.   I’ve tried to make the game different to regular DO this means a learning curve is inevitable TBH 

It is hard controlling 15 units, hell it’s impossible to control 15 units fully, but with all the Greenskins having move 5 it’s easy to quickly move units around, they’ve all got reasonable leadership, so when they break they tend to reform.  A lot about Greenskins being so powerful a side is recycling units into battle the enemy defeats one unit you’ve another to hand to pile in or shoot.  Usually vs undead during deployment I click flags past the undead forces and usually 1 or 2 get though the “wall” for me to attack hellgates.  – The spider will return but I need to get stability – crashes are the most off putting thing.

Undead – Jero complained about zombies creating a wall, tbh thats like complaining archers fire arrows at you, that was much the point  .  I’m going to have to reduce the number of regiments with raise the dead, its a bad spell for increasing the number of thing DO has to keep track of.  I’m not sure yet wether to have “officer” units to create more undead, or keep it to poor “wall” units so when the enemy knocks out a poor unit he also removes a raised unit.  I’ve reduced ldrship so they should collapse quicker.

Empire
“1) Empire Legionaries should cost less than Musketeers. At same price I prefer Ranged Units.”
That’s a person legionnaires are braver and with 2 attacks designed to romp though multi-wound enemies (orcs/zombies), I had to remove their wight blade because they did they’re job a bit too well .  Ranged units are going to get a slight nerf anyway to reduce strain on the poor engine.

The 2 knights units look similar but they are different.  Black Knights can break (i’ve seen them break surprisingly often when outnumbered), but the hell blade allowes them to rapidly cut though zombies with ease, then when needed the POS allows them to kill boss units easier.  Grails last longer, will not break, and t7 makes them immune to arrow attacks.  -  They’re not poles apart but they’re alot more different than most cavalry units in other mods.

Anecdotes:
Most times wights perfomed as expected, thou on 2 occasions when they charged knights they romped though the knights, they are designed to do damage but damn.

I’m surprised at the steam tank/scorp battles, they should be both quite capable doing damage to one another, maybe they’re getting stuck not being able to attack the other? (sometimes happens), i think they’ll both be slightly reduced in toughness and made cheap to try & prevent in future.

Spell Eater on the hellgate is not 100% WK destroyed one of his towers in the 2nd? Shot in one game – hahahahahaha, normally though hellgates will cope with 7->10 shots but will not last forever.  Which I  quite like actually.

Okay that was a bit more painful than expected.  Annoyingly everything ran perfectly against olly whilst during the tournament alsort cropped up

Anyway i've put aload of changes into the mod to reduce the strain on the poor old DO engine.

1.  Removed spiders - these were crashing due to unknown reason they will return once I BP manages to become fully stable.  This also means Greenskins no longer need to load ice magic.  I've removed Burnhardt for item removal as well.

2. Troop reductions - Many regiments have had small numbers of troops removed.  Eg gobos 24 ->20 orcs 18 ->16, raise the dead 18 ->16.

3. Knights have had spells removed. Elven mage lost WOJ & magic sword - massive price reduction as compensation.

4. Removed BOW from lightning tank, increase number of attacks as compensation.

5. Orcs (exept big unz & the new war boss)  have had ere we go + WOJ removed (yes I know boooooo).

6. Less units have access to raise the dead spell.

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Some maps seem to have issues with deploying the full orc side,  to get around this, added a new regiment Orc Warbozz, so no sacraficial units are needed for orcs now.  Unfortunatly this means you must have at least 1 warbozz in your side.

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Unfortunatly all this means i need to go though another round of balancing -

WK asked me to remind people - you need 2 hellgates.  to generate mana cast ice shards from one to another, 1 cast should fill your mana bar.  

If your units disappear rotate your camera, it happens v.rarely wjhen theres alot going on in game (general issue with DO not my mod)

The only rule for the mod is you have to stop teleporting with the void demon once the hellgates go down.

Dont forget to press modify dark omen!

uploaded new version i'll update tables tomorrw, thou not much changed.  (elf wiz has woj, steam tank more attacks but less w/s & - 1w, + few other minor changes)

BP latest vesion: http://www.mediafire.com/file/3c968be733kw6nf/bpro05.49.zip

Again whilst not mandatory try playing different races vs each other.  I think Flaks away so either me Ghabry or Olly will be hosting.

I've made it so there's no racial bias (elves no long hate greenskins, gobbos no longer fear elves etc) so you are allowed to change your armies mid tornament as long as it doesnt slow things down. 

I may change it to 6 games (hu vs ud, hu vs green, green vs hu, green vs ud, ud vs hu, ud vs green) but it depends on time, we'll see how fast things run assume 3 games to begin.  I'll sort something out if Flak doesnt do a shuffle. 

yes I believe so, I've played tons of games vs Olly which don't crash with the changes.  I keep looking for others to test against but nobody seems to be online ever to test against.

confirm

same
Same.

Same.

Same.

same