[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum | Warhammer Dark Omen | Multiplayer | Rules and Standards
5000/15

[alavet]

i still think noone is gonna use skeletons for 2/2
lets see tourney armies and effectivness of this system..

[Flak]

Its not really only about that, if they will be used alot or not. Skeletons are in competition with some strong units in the undead race which may prevent them from really being the main force of an army but if its balanced best in that way then so be it

but yes alavet lets see how the tournament goes, its only a week away now

you have to defend your title Sir Alavet 

[bembelimen]

So I made the adjustments click. I hope everyone is happy

[ZzUu]

Vampire - 4 points

He exceeds all other mages not only in toughness but also in speed(ms of 6, afaik one of the fastest regiments), which makes him almost invulnerable to archers. Having the melee abilities of his, makes him  capable of killing other mages with ease, which becomes really simple if he has the teleport spell. Besides, in the last Dost2002 rules (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/Rules/DOST2002) 1st lvl vampire costs as much as 3rd lvl necromancer - so I think he is currently underpriced. 

Have some other suggestions on Und units costs, hope to post them later 

[Ghabry]

I want -2 Points (so you get 2 points when buying him) for Treeman. He was really useless in my army.
One time he lost against Biguns (+Defiance) and in a Undead battle vs. flak he routed 5(!) Times. For 2700gc the Treeman is real garbage.

[ZzUu]

-2 points for treeman

Guess it would be ok, if Empire didnt have so powerful and cheap units such as flagellants. Besides, there are many powerful items...
However 3 points is really too much for him imho. I checked the DOST2002, and it suggests providing a considerable bonus if a player buys treeman.
So I think we should set him to 0 points.

[alavet]

i think 4 for vampire is ok

for treeman - well, 0 seems okish, but frankly speaking you willnt be able to use 15 points anyway with 2,3k left.

from other hand i dislike this idea cause it will allow ppl to use a lot of artillery units, which is not much fun (i dont against mortairs but with current balanced points, so this "0" allow human to have more artillery...

also now i see the skeletons should be decreased to 1/1/(2). they really maybe jusst little more powerfull than spider but they are slower and larger unit.

[Flak]

I reckon that vampires a good but 3 is already a nice price, 4 i guess is high but maybe worth a try.

A special rule concerning the Treeman could be a good idea, they are a drain on the cash and can flee rather fast.

I used skeletons and i found it very useful to get 2 skeletons for just 3 pts, my skeletons kicked alot of ...

[bembelimen]

Vampire - 4 points

Agree

-2 points for treeman
I checked the DOST2002, and it suggests providing a considerable bonus if a player buys treeman.
So I think we should set him to 0 points.

I think regardless of which points we set the Treeman, you'll never reach the 15 points if you buy him. I looked over Ghabrys army and thought, how we could give a bonus for using Treeman. One idea was: setting all items to 0 points, if you use Treeman, so you can use easily banner of wrath etc. to improve the strength of the army.

other suggestions:

recheck mummies

[Flak]

I had an idea that when you buy a treeman then the next unit is for free in terms of points, but maybe the problem is the heavy 2700 gc cost wont allow support units good enough

I think mummies are very expensive already, i think higher cost will make them a big liability as they are slow and only stand a real chance to get into combat if they have help to lock down the enemy. Also they are not unbreakable

I would think that if vampires get increased then mummies need to stay the same or the other way around not to weaken the undead race too much compared to the 2 other races.

[WarpGhost]

Mummies by themselves are overcosted at 6 points; the Defiance Banner however acts on them as more of a combat multiplier than sinply something that stops them running away, at which point even 7 points starts to look a little low!

Vampire at 4 or more is fine by me; their speed makes them almost immune to mage's usual counter of missile fire when well-micro'd, as they can dodge your shots! They can also fight out well against some of the melee counters.

I have no idea why it was thought Skeleton Horsemen should be costed 3/2/3 because that is frankly moronic. 2/3/3 or 2/2/3 was the suggestion. Making people pay more for taking just 1 unit, combined with the Mummies cost increase, along with the general costing nonesense of UD, basically forced me to ditch my usual UD army as no longer tenable.

[Flak]

Ive had a look at mummies vs grails with bembelimen


Mummies with banner have a slightly better chance than 50/50 to defeat the grail.

However without the banner they stand no chance at all.

Mummies i guess should be 7 pts, they are slow and can be shot at alot before they get to the enemy. 8 is too high compared to the grail, when the grail is 9.

[alavet]

i sudenly got known that ghouls has !!!2 attacks. which is very suprising for me.
sticking it with the fact they cause fear we definately should make second unit 2

so i suggest ghouls be 1/2/2 as usual swordmen or maybe even 1/2/3 (but i know noone will pay 3 for the third unit)

[Flak]

also a very low leadership (5) and an extra trait "Cowardly"

they are as liable to cause fear as to run themselves

[ZzUu]

Banner of defiance -> 2-3 pts
It seems to me that WarpGhost is right saying it's the banner of defiance which makes mummies the best melee unit in the game. Besides, I consider it an incredibly efficient item on any army unless it features unbreakable units or lacks in numbers greatly. So changing banner's price, which would affect all the factions, seems a better idea to me then increasing mummies' cost and thus undermining only Undead.