[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum | Warhammer Dark Omen | Multiplayer | Rules and Standards
5000/15

[Flak]

I agree that mummies with banner are extremely tough,

but banner of defiance at 2-3 pts would weaken the greenskin race, as they have no otherwise unbreakable units and im sure that is not the purpose.

Mummies set to 7 and the banner cost of 1 makes 8, just short of the grails 9 pts,

im not crazy about special rules but if many think mummies are too tough with banner then a 2-3 pts rule for banner with mummies could be the way.

Mummies also cannot be too expensive because without banner they are no way near as tough.

[alavet]

i dunno why u want to improve mummies to 7; i think  6 is ok... maybe we need to arrange some tests?

i believe that for example flags(3)+ogres with banner(3)+swordmen(1) will kill mummies with banner (7). at least i tried it in few games and it worked.. mybae i was lucky?

from other way im not against 7 cause they really tough but no way they should cost 8


and i dont like idea of banner=2, its too much for orcs and empire as well. if other thinks its too powerfull then we may make special rule about banner: for example make it 2pts but allow to buy second regiment with -1 pts cost.

like2 swordmen (with banner) now will cost 4pts, as they cost now. this automatically increases mummies value, cause it'd be too cost for them. but with that rule we usually will have 2 biguns with orc armies, which i personally dont like.

[Flak]

i think you where lucky alavet hehe

mummies with banner can kill black grail at something like 60/40 chance, so 7 is ok by me not that im against 6 either because they are very slow

other than that i agree

altho we gotta watch with special rules, they have a habbit of taking away freedom of creativity

[alavet]

and again after each battle with flak i have new suggestion to balance

vamp def should be 4pts
2 as usual mage +1 for good meele (as scorpion i guess) and +1 for the speed (as we use for cavalry)

seems that elves too much overpowered i really HATE to face them in any battle no matter which opponent is.
sure thats not the main reason for the balancing them
-their range is very close to the range of bolt thrower (which has 2 pts)
-they shoot pretty fast
-their damage much better than bolt thrower
-they might move (and MS=5 which is faster than other units)
-they may fight meele, and actually rather good (better than swordmen)
-cause of their characteristics i always face with situation when they flee but then
come back to the battle and usually its VERY bad case when they come back at the distane of fire and start to shoot you.
its dififirs from usual behavior of other archers cause usually another archers flee forever or reduces in q-ty too much
if they attacked being with any good meele unit.
 
for example see graph of elves


and swordmen:


conclusion:
2 as usual archers +1 for the range +0,5 for the rate  of fire +0,5 for their good meele characteristics and +0,5 for their better MS and "comeback"
though, second unit in that case should cost also 5 pts

5/5/6 my vote for elves.
p.s. i also think bolt thrower should be 1 pts. mayeb 1/2/2 but i prefer 1/1/2

P.P.S. LOL! elves even better than cavalry:
Grudgebringer Cavalry

and lol @ cavalry is soo sloow
maybe cavalry should be 2 pts? discuss

[Flak]

The stats you have put up as elves is not the stats for mutiplayer

they are the same for both leader and unit and differ from singleplayer as most units are considerable weaker in multiplayer

Elves
M:5 WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:1 IN:6 A:1 L:8

4/5/6 is already expensive, ive not seen anybody use for than 1, as taking 2 for the cost of 9 is more than most are willing to spend on archers.

Elves are particular weak against fast moving enemies, ofcz they will always win the shootout against other archers but then they cost double.


bear in mind Alavet we were playn Factions and thats why i was able to use 2 elven bowmen, 3 glade gaurds, 1 dwarf and the icemage with staff of osiris, in 5k/15 that is not possible

[alavet]

Elves
M:5 WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:1 IN:6 A:1 L:8

this is doesnt contradicts with graph at all.

as for factions, not its not the main reason. the main reason that i found your tourney army (elvez + crossbowmen + cavalry + meat) very strong and kinda imba.

2 as usual archers +1 for the range +0,5 for the rate  of fire +0,5 for their good meele characteristics and +0,5 for their better MS and "comeback"
arguments against?

[Flak]

it contradicts the red line, they should have been lined up anyway

hehe it is a good army

but how about we test it once more, you make the army and ill see if i can beat it, if i cant then i agree
best of 3

you can see it in the army build section

[alavet]

i dont like to mass spam this topic. red line is for LEADER and yes i know that there is not leaders at multiplayer. so my reasoning remains the same:  ELVES BETTER THAN MOST MEELE UNIT AND Q-TY, AND EVEN EQUAL/BETTER CAVALRY BY MOST STATS AND !!! BETTER BY SPEED

please again give your counter reasoning for my thought of based points.
2 as usual archers +1 for the range +0,5 for the rate  of fire +0,5 for their good meele characteristics and +0,5 for their better MS and "comeback"

and about your idea, yes, i thought about it. we will try it for sure. even tho you possibly better in using elves "right way".

[Flak]

well 4/5/6 already means that only 1 elven bowman is used anyway
i guess 5/6/6 wont make much difference

cool we'll give it a shot

[ZzUu]

elven bowmen have no armor, dont forget about this

[WarpGhost]

Ive seen Elf bowmen destroy armies, but I think 4 is still a reasonable cost; they're riskier than you give them credit. Much like Mummies and Black Grail, if you can neutralise the bowmen, the heart is torn from the army. Plus shooting isnt always that useful, at least not for all the game.

[Flak]

This is true WarpGhost

i did that to Ghabry's elven bowmen in the tournament

[alavet]

i dont think that 4 pts really heart of the army. for example i constantly use flags + shield which costs me 4 pts and if i loose it it willnt "crush" my army very much.

i think we need to make some tests vs another meele regiments.

[alavet]

and yeah, why horsemen 3/2 ? i may understand 2/3 but 3/2 makes no sense

[alavet]

and wtf that heart of voe costs 1pts? no way it deserves it... pls make it similar to potion - second for free