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Fair Omen 2010

[Jeronimo]

I had enough time to think (1 month) the changes that would take place in FO this year.
You will find a very different version in many senses. Document file has been updated with all new stuff.

Note: I cant upload MAINMENU because is too large (see it in "Fair Omen after 1st Tournament" topic).

Download

[olly]

Sounds Cool!

Thanks

[lordbraprus]

ahah here it is



you just right clickand save image has. and with paint make it 256 colours renameit as MAINMENU and copy to graphics/pictures folder love you all

[Jeronimo]

@Request to Ghabry. Replace first link.
This is the changed version ( I fixed artillery prices after testing them with Mr. Shadow in hamachi).
Replace old link with name FAIR OMEN, so people have only to click on first POST. (like in DecemberT).

@Community: If anyone has problems with patching EngRel, send me a private message.

You need Original DO EngRel version to patch, otherwise, the changes wont be taken.
Revise if patched successfully (in .doc all changes are well explained now, the oldies and new ones).

[Jeronimo]

Well, i have working all night.. I did some tweaking to 2parm, and compressed DOC text from 6 pages to only 4!
I fixed the problem of halberiders spam, besides others things. Now 3k/FO= aprox 5 regiments. (average)
I'll show 3 nice armybuilds (that satisfy me )

Vladimir Stormbringer	Helmgart Bowmen	Grudgebringer Cavalry	Imperial Greatswords	Grudgebringer Infantry

Night Goblin Shaman	Gigantic Spider	Orc Arrer Boyz	Orc Boyz	Orc Big'uns

Necromancer	Skeleton Archers	Skeleton Archers	Screaming Skull Catapult	Screaming Skull Catapult

It just rests to prepare some good maps, and game is done.

[alavet]

could you pls post your latest ruleset there so we can discuss about possible changes?

[Jeronimo]

I will post it, in shortly , I want to try/test some things before... and add them to FO overall structure.

You see, although I didnt crack Shields, I found a decent way to add them... and I want to see if can handle with pathfinding/fast flee triggers now. All this with Win32Edit hehehe, I'll try to do my best.

[Jeronimo]

Finally I post here the 3 Races info + Items... this Version is for upcoming July Tournament, so you have here the info you need to talk about it and share opinions.
My Last New Regs Structure (since its very flexible for any future tweaks that may need).

Movement tweaks: Wraiths Mov is 5. Vampire Mov is 5. Goblins & Dwarves +"Unim by diff terrain".

[alavet]

ok my thoughts
NICE SHIELD INCRESMENT ALONG WITH TROOP LEVEL

overall: cavalry should be higher by ~10% or so i belive.
what is FE? full experience? what teh diffiirence between 4* and 4** in real stats

EMPIRE
1) isnt flagellants too low in cost? i think 850 is better for them
2) what grails knights actuall yahve? i believe immune to fear only ad LS like 9?
3) whats wrogn with wood elves?   it could be overpriced but im not sure.
4) perhars treeman should be little upper in cost. 1440-1500 i think now.

GS

1) biguns could be little bit low in price for high level. i wouldve icnreased it for 10-20%
2) WTF at boar boyz. i think they actually same warriors as human cavalry, arent they?

UD
mummies could be higher in cost. i know you have to invest 600 more but still 1700 gc for such freakign overpower unit could be low cost. soemthing like icnrease for 100 or more. jsut compare light grails to mummies in price there is no much diffirience

ITEMS
Defiance to 500. srsly. or 550 at least.
lighting sword to 175 or 150. sword of ferball i prefer much more.
skrabash to 550 or 500

[Jeronimo]

ALAVET & EVERYONE: I took the time to explain well this so please read and not skip parts of my reply.
There is a general upgrade for everyone, besides Mov Tweaks i made this.

Leadership Boost: All regiments now have +1 Leadership to run less, fight more.
There are few exceptions to this: Wights & Trolls +2 L. Mummies & Elves +0 L (same L8).
Which can explain of some prices, like Flagellants remaining at 720 and Skabrash at 450.

Your overall cavalry +10% suggestion: Do you want 780 for Cavalries 720 for Boars/elf glade runners? That would be really overpriced I think, since remember at May Tournament they were at 600gc, now generally +120 its very ok (from my point of view) at those times cavalry was at 600 you also said "maybe +10%"

Level 4 is Basic, level 4* means Advanced and level 4 FE “Full Experience”.
When regiment starts with 3 or 4 skulls at basic, has these upgrades... its same as if had started with 2 skullls...
0 exp, 1000 exp, 3000 exp , 6000 exp (FE) >>> Basic, +1 WS or BS, +1S, +1W

Empire:
1) They arent low in cost, in fact they can dissapoint at higher cost, at least your 850 could be the 840 (wiht +1 WS for them). Compare that 12/12 wights with L10+3W+wight blade cost 660.
Flag are weak vs any arrows, magic swords (since they are few), outnumbered easily. May Tourney Semi video vs Wkur.

2) White Grail: Imm to fear, now L10, 3 shields start, +1 WS, +1S than Merc. horsemen. 960 Its... Fair

3) Elf archers at 1080 are better in action than 9 mummies (1 reason i dont want to make mummies higher), sadly to say, but are also better than 1 imperial mortar (also at 1080gc), their fire speed and range has amused me to the point of seeing them kill even mummies each 2-3 rain of arrows (it seems their arrows do more damage).

4) If it were higher in cost I honestly wouldnt buy him , Elf archers at 1440 (+1 BS), really kick more asses than a Treeman trying to not flee from melee combat. I tested the Elves and with 5 BS, its very assasin.
You see Treeman cost its like cavalry 4 FE, which with luck can easily rout treeman, but also remember their "magic weakness overall) and they ARENT imm to fear.

Greenskins:
1) Now, I would buy honestly 26 orc boyz 3 shields, +1WS, +1S, at 540 instead of the big'uns at 780, (which are same as Boars with 3 shields, +1 WS, 780gc "big mmmmh" here).
Remember Lobber still is at 960gc, if top biguns were at.. "840" I will prefer a Lobber + Top Orc boyz always

2) No man... Boar are not similar than cavalry, I would describe they are worse, since having tusks is the only advantage of them, Boar Movement is like 5 of Infantry, almost no difference. Also these Greenskins tend to flee all the time. I was testing at home.. even charging they can flee making tusks obsolete element (you need luck ).

Undead:
1) I once tried Mummies spam vs my bro testing (no BoD), and you know... they trully suck, they will flee even having 9/9. During Tournament I used Mummies 7/7 with no BoD and they fled and were killed by stomps of Infantry... so this Regiment is "almost useless" without BoD, reason I kept it at 600gc.
Same as Flagellants but worse, talking about "NO Banner of Defiance" they may dissapoint you at higher costs, make them a flank attack, wait 2 magic cycles and pray they dont run.
NOTE: They keep Leadership 8, there wasnt a boost for them.. still same while others got bit better (even wraiths had +1L, while Wights +2 to L10 these heavy champions).

Items:
Defiance: Is 1 of the best Items of game, we all know why. I preferred 600, since its better Item than Spelleater Shield or Osiris (both already at 550), we make an exception with BoW which cost 650 (many times dissapoint, only makes considerable damage when FEW regiments are left in battlefield).
Think in 1 Regiment with 2 wounds and superior stats/shields unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable...

Skabskrath: Simply isnt needed by UD forces.. at 500 its better Wand of Jet, Osiris stuff kills better, remember Leadership boosts, many reg causing fear/terror.. At 450, Skabrskrath or Infernal+PoS? (also try other combos).

Lightning Sword Grudbringer Sword: It depends on the point of view, my bro and I state that Lightning is "better", you Alavet state that that Grudgebringer is "better", depends obv in our experiences...
NOTE: I remember 1 anecdote, Lsword in my big'uns really electrocuted my bro Flagellants, 2 rays 2 kills, it affects better vs Infantries (maybe a discovery?), while Gsword many times strikes an invisible wall instead of hiting the unit. So at 200gc, I doubt about Magic Book for extra spell or Lsword to kill Infantry. (Dragonhelm wont help you).

[Darkmancer]

Level 4 is Basic, level 4* means Advanced and level 4 FE “Full Experience”.
When regiment starts with 3 or 4 skulls at basic, has these upgrades... its same as if had started with 2 skullls...
0 exp, 1000 exp, 3000 exp , 6000 exp (FE) >>> Basic, +1 WS or BS, +1S, +1W

Are you putting in these bonus's artificially or assuming do puts them in?

On a side note when wrights lose a round in h2h do they break instantly or take a leadership check?  It's something i've never tested.

Edit
Why did you not increase Mummies ldrship when your main problem with them is them running?

[alavet]

Your overall cavalry +10% suggestion: Do you want 780 for Cavalries 720 for Boars/elf glade runners? That would be really overpriced I think, since remember at May Tournament they were at 600gc, now generally +120 its very ok (from my point of view) at those times cavalry was at 600 you also said "maybe +10%"

IVE JUST NOTICED THERE IS 16 AT CAVALRY UNIT. IS IT A STANDARD QUANTITY? I BELIVE IN SATNDARD DARK OMEN THERE WAS 12 CAVALRY UNITS ONLY. IF SO, PORICE FOR 800 IS MORE THAN ENOUGH BALANCED IMO (AND GRAIL SHOULD BE HIGHER)

3) Elf archers at 1080 are better in action than 9 mummies (1 reason i dont want to make mummies higher), sadly to say, but are also better than 1 imperial mortar (also at 1080gc), their fire speed and range has amused me to the point of seeing them kill even mummies each 2-3 rain of arrows (it seems their arrows do more damage).

4) If it were higher in cost I honestly wouldnt buy him , Elf archers at 1440 (+1 BS), really kick more asses than a Treeman trying to not flee from melee combat. I tested the Elves and with 5 BS, its very assasin.
You see Treeman cost its like cavalry 4 FE, which with luck can easily rout treeman, but also remember their "magic weakness overall) and they ARENT imm to fear.

FOR THAT I MEANT ELVEN SPEARMEN. I UDNERSTOOD ARCHERS BETETR THA NMORTAIR.

Level 4 is Basic, level 4* means Advanced and level 4 FE “Full Experience”.
When regiment starts with 3 or 4 skulls at basic, has these upgrades... its same as if had started with 2 skullls...
0 exp, 1000 exp, 3000 exp , 6000 exp (FE) >>> Basic, +1 WS or BS, +1S, +1W

YES PLS  ELEBORATE WHERE YOU GOT THIS DATA

2) No man... Boar are not similar than cavalry, I would describe they are worse, since having tusks is the only advantage of them, Boar Movement is like 5 of Infantry, almost no difference. Also these Greenskins tend to flee all the time. I was testing at home.. even charging they can flee making tusks obsolete element (you need luck ).

CAN YOU PROOF IT? GIVEN GRAPHIC THERE IS ALMOST NO DIFFIRIENCE. BOARS HAVE EVEN BATTER TO BUT LESS IN

1) Now, I would buy honestly 26 orc boyz 3 shields, +1WS, +1S, at 540 instead of the big'uns at 780, (which are same as Boars with 3 shields, +1 WS, 780gc "big mmmmh" here).

YOU'RE ACTUALLY RIGHT. I'VE JUST CHECKED STATS FOR ORCS AND BGUNS AND THERE IS ALMOST NO DIFFIRIENE, BIGUNS ONLY HAVE +1INT AND +1 WS +1STR

1) I once tried Mummies spam vs my bro testing (no BoD), and you know... they trully suck, they will flee even having 9/9. During Tournament I used Mummies 7/7 with no BoD and they fled and were killed by stomps of Infantry... so this Regiment is "almost useless" without BoD, reason I kept it at 600gc.
Same as Flagellants but worse, talking about "NO Banner of Defiance" they may dissapoint you at higher costs, make them a flank attack, wait 2 magic cycles and pray they dont run.

I FALLEN TO UNDERSTOOD THIS POST. I SEE U SAID 7/7 MUMMIES BUT U ILLUSTRATING 9/9 MUMMIES. I MEAN 1700 GC THEY'RE VERY USEFULL. I KNOW W/O BOD THEY SUCK BUT WITH BOD THEY'RE GREATER THAN 2 REGIMENTS AND SOMETIMES THEY HANDLE UP TO 4 OTHER REGIMENTS AND WIN. SO SMAAAL INCREASMENT COULD WORK FOR THEM

Defiance: Is 1 of the best Items of game, we all know why. I preferred 600, since its better Item than Spelleater Shield or Osiris (both already at 550), we make an exception with BoW which cost 650 (many times dissapoint, only makes considerable damage when FEW regiments are left in battlefield).
Think in 1 Regiment with 2 wounds and superior stats/shields unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable... unbreakable...

HAHA SO LETS COUTN HOW MANY UNITS WITH 2 WOUNDS WE HAVE? UHMM I GUESS BGK, WIGHTS, MUMMIES, ANDDD OGRES.. TOO OVERPRICED FOR ANY OTHER RACE THAN UD.


P.S. SORRY FOR CAPS LOCK, I STARTED IN BOX FAST REPLY BUT THEN I HAD TO MAKE MORE QUOTES BUT STICKED TO CAPS LOCK.

P.P.S. DID YOU REMOVED TERROR FROM BGK?

[Jeronimo]

Ok, lets start to reply... slowly.

@Darkmancer: I assume the extra bonus are the same than in SotHR. I read a big post (Olly thx) explaining battle mechanics and experience upgrades. And I must say... I agree with what was explained + shown in my test battles vs my brother. It seems evolution is same than in SotHR.
You already notice, experienced archers shoot faster and with +aim... fighters do better in battle as well

Seems that Wraiths run after losing "hand to hand round", while Wights lose after taking Leadership check (like most regiments) Do WRAITH'S FLAG sound familiar? Wights dont have any specific flag ticked. Check with Win32Edit.

I didnt boost Mummies leadership because I would have to make them more expensive. Their L8 + flammability + Mov 3 is good enough for costing 1080gc... more L would mean +cost for it, they already "rocked" and Elves too, so no need yo make them "better".

@Alavet: I accept your apologizes for writing so brutally Not proper from a Zombie but its Ok.

Cavalry: Yes, there a 12/12 and 16/16. More number doesnt mean more effectiveness. One thing are Stats (as always we tend to see and give price with that) but another thing is the performance on battlefield.
My brother has complained more than once that Mercenary Cavalry with his "good" Stats is complete rubbish at fighting, you see they fight a bit, dont kill anyone and then run away? Always the same. Dissapointed we are.

Take a look closer to my tables: 16 units start with 2 shields, while 12 units (Grails) start with 3 shields
Skeleton horsemen will instantly die due to Skeleton Flag... so why not 16 units? Also they need this number to support arrow/magic attacks until they arrive enemy positions... with 12 would crumble before charging.
Note: BoW is very effective at killing them. And fanatics? hehehe, skeletons are paper.

720 is already enough, with 3,5k you wont see them much. You can also try Merc. Ogres (2 Shield+cause fear+Mov6)
More expensive cavalry will end in Infantry Spam + Artilleries back, you need something to block the Ranged... they are the Anti-Lame Regiments, you understand my point...
9/9 Pistoliers are still at 900gc, considering that having 16/16 in "melee cavalry" is logical

Wood Glade Runners: Remember that 14/14 from NB9k were at 690gc, were you complaining because mine cost 660 being 20/20? Is not overpriced, in fact if you do big comparisons, they cost like 16 Orc Boar, or new 12 Wights (L10), all at 660.
Their speed+polearm+terror vs goblins+hate Greenskins (reason why I kept L8), makes them the Lanced Cavalry of The Empire.

Orc Boar Boyz: They are too slow for being a "mounted" (like Mov 5 of Infantry) and have -2 stats than a Big'un (-1I,-1S).
Poor Boars, with Initiative 2, are quite awful.. as I say once, pure luck you need. 16 units, or the tusks will almost dont exist. I still bet for monsters wich cause terror and move faster, better for manoeuvres
One thing are graphics stats, another is to see them in action. Read again my comment above about Merc. Horsemen.

Mummies doubt: I mentioned an example of Wkurwiony tournament. Even having 1 Mummies+Defiance doesnt mean victory.
Magic/ even some proyectiles/ monsters squads can create havoc among them.
Outnumbered they are nothing too, same as Wigths, Flagelants.
I prefer (in FO) to have 2 Top Skeleton Warriors instead of 1 Mummy: 540x2 = 1080. Saving money for Vampire or BGK...
2nd favourite choice: Top 20/20 Ghouls 900 gc+Defiance, you get a killing machine IMO better than mummies due to Mov 4 and everyone with 2 Wounds (40 in total !!)
3rd choice: Top Zombies or Wights+Defiance.. not really necessary since Wights have L10 in order to not need BoD (of course) and Zombies still kick asses, just cover their backs while fighting.

Defiance joke: I know you some of my words like a joke, but the Level 4 FE means it comes with +1W for every unit in Regiment, make x2 and you will see many end with more Wounds than Mummies... Still thinking in more expensive Mummies Alavet?
Concerning to BGK, they are the same as always: Cause fear + Leadership Check. Never had Terror (its only a Campaign upgrade in order to make Mission more difficult, hehehe, it wasnt enough )

[Darkmancer]

Jeronimo, We assumed how those stats would be implemented in DO, however our testing (me and olly) showed no difference between lvl1 and lvl 4 troops.

I'll happily do another round of testing but I believe your wrong there.

Also are you really sure the wraith flag does ignore ld check?  5 ldrship is a v.low score I think it has a 1:4 chance of passing, are you assuming it skips the check? or have you done some testing with wraiths at L10?

[alavet]

Cavalry: Yes, there a 12/12 and 16/16. More number doesnt mean more effectiveness. One thing are Stats (as always we tend to see and give price with that) but another thing is the performance on battlefield.
My brother has complained more than once that Mercenary Cavalry with his "good" Stats is complete rubbish at fighting, you see they fight a bit, dont kill anyone and then run away? Always the same. Dissapointed we are.

sorry for rudness i think its a bullshit. i dont beleive there is much of "hidden stats" or soemthing. i guess you faced bad luck with dice rolls. see both regiments as boars and human cavalry have same stats. cavalry not superior stats and have almsot same stats as ifantry soemtimes but their superb ability of flanking and retreating (yes, soemtiems retreatign actuall help you, cause you can reposition you cavalry  if get lucky and attack same regiment from the rear. otherwise if they'd ought to death they could lost or witn with 1-2 cavalry remain). also they move fast meaning you can pursue them to whit flag)

Wood Glade Runners: Remember that 14/14 from NB9k were at 690gc, were you complaining because mine cost 660 being 20/20?  Is not overpriced, in fact if you do big comparisons, they cost like 16 Orc Boar, or new 12 Wights (L10), all at 660.
Their speed+polearm+terror vs goblins+hate Greenskins (reason why I kept L8), makes them the Lanced Cavalry of The Empire.

i mean 4 lvl elven spermen costs 1200. isnt it too much? seems for me a little

Orc Boar Boyz: They are too slow for being a "mounted" (like Mov 5 of Infantry) and have -2 stats than a Big'un (-1I,-1S).
Poor Boars, with Initiative 2, are quite awful.. as I say once, pure luck you need. 16 units, or the tusks will almost dont exist. I still bet for monsters wich cause terror and move faster, better for manoeuvres
One thing are graphics stats, another is to see them in action. Read again my comment above about Merc. Horsemen.

im not mathcing boars between biguns. i matchign their prcie vs merc cavalry, which are alsmot the same.