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General modding questions

[crash]

I am working on getting Rob's c# files to load in my editor, so the models can be loaded as is(.m3d).  I have some general d o questions maybe someone can answer in the meantime.  Assume I am referring to b101.

I am guessing that the m3x file is for culling parts of the terrain.  Is this correct?  Can you delete either the base.m3d or m3x and not crash the game with software processing?

The terrain block heights are two sets of data.  Does anyone know why the sets are different?  Since the first set does not show the river at the top, I am guessing the first dataset is for sight, and the second is for rgt height. 

Using the command line tool from this site, can you remove or replace units from either arm file without it crashing?

Assuming you renamed the arm file in the btb header, can you swap arm files from a different map?

Are the aud and are files the same as the arm file?

What is the trac block in the prj file for?  Is it a path for the camera?

Is the furn.lst file necessary?

Thx

[Ghabry]

I am guessing that the m3x file is for culling parts of the terrain.  Is this correct?  Can you delete either the base.m3d or m3x and not crash the game with software processing?

There was some purpose of m3x files I cant remember. There is a "map gridder" available to generate a m3x from a m3d.

The terrain block heights are two sets of data.  Does anyone know why the sets are different?  Since the first set does not show the river at the top, I am guessing the first dataset is for sight, and the second is for rgt height. 

Hm, I can't remember the reason. But your idea sounds logical, because one file always contains the furniture (to block for line of sight) and one is without furniture (height only).

Here is a command line tool for TERR:
DO Heightmap Generator

Using the command line tool from this site, can you remove or replace units from either arm file without it crashing?

Command line tool? You use Wh32Edit and BtbEdit for this.
And of course, there are many mods for Dark Omen that replace the armies.

You can ask me more questions about this, should be able to answer them.

Assuming you renamed the arm file in the btb header, can you swap arm files from a different map?

Assuming that they have the same UnitID and the same UnitType: yes. (otherwise it could crash when you dont adjust the CTL script)

You can ask me more questions about this, should be able to answer them.

Are the aud and are files the same as the arm file?

Yes.
AUD is what you can buy. ARE is the template for new armies.

What is the trac block in the prj file for?  Is it a path for the camera?

Yes. A note about the camera: If I remember this correctly the camera uses in Singleplayer the first heightmap data and in multiplayer the second .

Is the furn.lst file necessary?

No idea.

[olly]

Great questions and answers - keep them coming ->

1) Rob created the map gridder tool and described the .m3x as a chunked version of the .m3d terrain map, that DO uses for its calculations.

2) The Terrain block of Black Pyramids investigation =
1st Height Map = Line of Sight (as blocked by small pyramids in both Single Player and Multiplayer)
1st Height Map = Single Player Camera (Roaming Camera will rise and fall over the small pyramids)
2nd Height Map = Troops movements following gradient of Terrain (Armies walk on flat terrain where small pyramids used to be but do walk in the air over the large pyramid since it appears in both Height Maps) 
2nd height Map = Multiplayer Camera (Roaming Camera passes straight through small pyramids and Rob found that the small Pyramids don't appear in the 2nd height map, hence the flat terrain for troops and camera not altering)

So I just make both height maps the same on any of my new mod maps.

ATTR Block sets the type of terrain for special effects for when artillery hits water or rock. So on the Black Pyramids map I changed all the 22 hex entries to 00 that eliminated the areas where the Pyramids stood, allowing a new flat map. Troops can not engage in combat on designated ATTR blocks, if there isn't a BTB boundary to stop them entering.

The furn.lst file is necessary as far as i know to avoid crashes but not necessary to modding. I remember when using Mikademus' .PRJ tool that i would add in my furniture to the .PRJ FURN Block and then be able to assign it in the INST block. However, my Fortress Map is a Flat modded Black Pyramids and I didn't have to alter its original FURN.list which just says Tempfurn.

[crash]

So, you don't really need anything to be able to create and play custom maps?

[olly]

Yes, we're currently limited to reusing original sized maps and ideally the height map generator tool will eventually accept more detailed 24bit .PNG files instead of 16bit.TIFF files to avoid "stepping" when troops walk up slopes instead of more detailed finer gradients that 24bit.PNG will hopefully offer.

Apart from that I've got flattened map templates ready to go in Blender, to allow fans to create hills and new terrain, take a shaded greyscale top down screen shot of the terrain height map and then export to BASE.M3D, to then convert to BASE.M3X and apply BTB boundaries around any new furniture or cliff edges etc.

It would be nice to automate the ATTR areas where water and cliffs are somehow and also the EXCL block (has it been proved that all it does is make some FURN see through for Line of Sight as same can be done with BTB boundaries (block line of sight and Magic/Arrows). A nice tool to set the camera travel in the TRAC block would be great but I guess this all requires a Battle Editor!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/map2q.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/map1lwf.jpg/

Or did you just mean don't need anything in the Furn.lst to create and play custom maps.

[Ghabry]

Creating custom maps should be possible already but using one tool that combines everything is easier then using 10 different tools.

[crash]

A few more questions:

Is there an easy way in blender to create and view a bounding sphere for a model?

Using the tools you currently have, if you wanted to create a map with forest sections rgts can move into, do you need to have 2 versions of the map?  Like one with the forests and one without to make 2 separate heightmaps.

Do you need the map pic file ie b101.bmp, or will d o crash if it is not there?

The ATTR block, is it only for the explosion sprites?  Does it affect anything else?

[olly]

The best way I found on my Fortress map, was to have the forest sections as single .m3d FURN INST and then assign BTB boundaries around the section you don't want troops to pass through and blocks Line of Sight. Then the plain terrain without woods can be used to generate both height maps.

The ATTR block is only used for the explosion sprites (water/cliff edges/ground) but troops are unable to engage in melee unless the section is 00 00 in  the ATTR. I found this when removing the Black Pyramids from the Height Maps and 3d Terrain but then found I had to blank the ATTR blocks where they once stood, to allow troops to engage in melee for modded Fortress Map B5_01B.

Just tested and the map pic b101.bmp doesn't crash game when not present

Bounding Box in Blender -> Import B1_01 BASE.M3D and set view to Bounding Box

[crash]

The cliffs and the ground actually have different explosions?  I never noticed.  What about the river fords like on b101?

[olly]

It changes for water and ground but not for cliffs, I had misremembered that, sorry.




http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/PRJ#ID:_.22ATTR.22_block_data_layout

ATTR Block

"It looks like this is line-of-sight / accessibility information. attributes are 0 for ’ordinary’ tiles, 2 for blocked ( i.e. unit can’t move there ), 8 for passable water (such as fords), 10 (8|2) for impassible water".

[crash]

I wonder why they would bother to differentiate the river ford, then.  Maybe, it was something they were going to use that got dropped.

[olly]

There is a Bridge that they never used in B1_01 as I found the same problems for troops to successfully navigate and cross bridges, you end up having a "too wide" bridge that looks unnaturally wide. The issue is caused when troops automatically assume the widest formation when told to attack. So to navigate the Fortress Entrance gate u must stay in thin formation and manually charge your troops into the enemy, rather than telling to attack (annoying but cant find a work around but kind of makes sense that large cavalry units would naturally find it harder to fit through gates and bridges without assuming the thinnest formations. They automatically use the widest formation on attack to maximize the amount of enemy units they can engage in melee. A rivers crossing works better than a bridge.

[crash]

I had seen the textures, but had no idea there was a model for them.  Where did you find it?

[olly]

Sorry I built that for my Fortress map using their original Dark Omen Bridge textures to recreate it but then found all the BTB boundaries had to be too wide for the bridge, to allow troops to easily navigate.

http://forum.dark-omen.org/3d-scenery-models/new-beta-fotress-siege-map-t1001.0.html



So I also had to revert back to a river crossing instead of wooden bridge. My other stone bridge is optimal size after weeks of testing.

[crash]

So, do you think you could get away with just saving either water or ground for every position on the map?  For the ATTR block.