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Author Topic: New Balance revamped  (Read 14572 times)
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Wkurwiony
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« on: January 11, 2010, 03:16:18 PM »


Ok so after tests that i've made playing against Jeronimo, mod now looks pretty balanced. I've resigned from point system for items and now its all about how much gold you have. There is only one rule when building your army (up to 3 same units). What i wanted to achive in this mod, is that every and each unit in DO should have his own place on the battlefield. That the game should be about using proper counters at right time, executing your tactics, destroying plans of your enemy.

What is new in this mod, compared to default game ?

1. Basic infantries in various sizes : you got small normal and large unit sizes
2. Small cavaleries : each race got a 3/3 cav type, very usefull in scouting, pursuing enemy, chasing mages, attacking unprotected artilleries
3. Black Orcs (4 4 3 4 4 1 3 1 8 armor 2/3) for greenskins : unbreakable unit that balances horn and bgk, of course very usefull units in killing rate similiar to flagellants,
4. Bone Giant (6 3 0 6 5 6 1 4 8 armor 4/4) : he will never rout and will pour terror into hearts of his foes, althou hes killing rate isnt great ;]
5. Mobile Artillery : all artillery pieces will have movement 1, thaks to this we will be able to play on large maps, whitout worrying who should rush if both players got artilleries
6. Every regiment have been adjusted (gold price or regiment size) to balance race against two other races
7. Added missing abilities of regiments : causing fear to ogres, immunity to fear to zombies etc
8. Changed item prices

Soon ill upload some videos from games with Jeronimo

Hope you all will enjoy it as much as i am, and if you want to test it with others, join DarkOmenNewBalance//darkomen you will find link to current version in the welcome message

Also list of unit sizes/prices you can find in attached file here, its an xls file so open it with MS Excel

Cheers

* NB.xls (24 KB - downloaded 207 times.)
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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 10:58:49 PM »

Dark Omen vs Jeronimo NewBalanceDQ | by Aeva


ok one movie for now to get you all interested (lets hope)  ;] enjoy
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 11:06:18 PM »

Interesting Logo. At first look I thought in Airlines Smiley

Video: Damn fanatics!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:16:32 PM by Jeronimo » Logged
lordbraprus
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 01:42:34 PM »

it was not gg.
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ito maquiesves
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 01:48:15 AM »

Interesting Logo. At first look I thought in Airlines Smiley

Too bad my logo was copied by some shoes company ... but is cool right ? ;]
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tovertrut
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 03:32:12 AM »

artillery that can move was needed in this game.
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 05:07:32 AM »

ARTILLERY with MOV 1

I agree with this change (even if isn't in Warhammer World).

But... Why I like it? Do you really want to listen me?  hehehe...

1) Maps with large distances make artillery part of a defensive strategy, which only can be defeated with fast rush or hit & run tactic (ouch). With this of MOV 1, you can traslade your artillery forward, to make it mobile-defense and not stuck in your base. Becoming the 3rd option to deal with enemy's High Defense.

2) You can save artillery crew moving them away from those tipic spells like soul drain or firestorm without having to cast on them dispel magics as emergency (many times i have those dispels in my wizard, and suddenly I found myself casting on artillery for saving them... sometimes I dont reach them and artillery dies--- Waste of magic points).

3) Move artillery when is being hit by proyectils or inminent long range magic attack (cold wind, arnizipal's black horror). Also is important to be constantly hidden from enemy sight, what you can do now.

4) Take Items from the battlefield (or block enemy racial item standing over it---Good move). Also make rear charges in order to desmoralize sometimes work.

5) My favourite advantage: You can reach strategic positions that are away from deployment zone, like a hill in the middel of map, or a cliff like in Troll Land (at flanks).

Do you still want a 6th reason?  Wink
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 05:12:59 AM by Jeronimo » Logged
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 12:16:42 PM »

Here's a vid showing mobile artillery in action, its not the best example of what it gives, but you can see my enemy moving his artillery behind a hill, trying to get out of the range of my lobbers and attack troops that are crossing the river

Dark Omen vs Kura NewBalance (Mobile artillery)DQ | by Aeva


Two things
1. there is a little bug, in that version i forgot to replace mortar to cannon, so he got 3 mortars instead of 3 cannons.
2. for now those mobile artilleries got movement 2, thats because with movement 1 it takes them very long (about 10 seconds) to be ready to fire when target is from their side or rear. So i think M2 is best solution as they are still the slowest unit avaible in multiplayer

Enjoy
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 08:54:15 PM »

There seems to be some really weird price increases for units that don't really deserve it.

Plus bone giant - 1245 for a generally useless unit?
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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 09:20:12 PM »

There seems to be some really weird price increases for units that don't really deserve it.

Plus bone giant - 1245 for a generally useless unit?


please give examples of unit prices that you think cost too much, as for now your opinion dont give me any clue what regiments are you talking about

as for bone giant he is not useless, and with more games i play with him or see what he is able to, the more i can say how much he should cost
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 11:38:17 PM »

As he has 0 strength all I can think the bone giant is for is as a "boo" unit to try and rout other units.  the only time he will achieve this is during charges - he not going to win any combat rounds is he? He could do with a single but very powerful attack, even then i'd be hesitent to spend that sort of money on a single unit squad with little offensive capability.

Why would i use him and not say a vampire/skele horsemen/bgk?  All having the advantage of shock horror actually being able to kill stuff?

Over priced units:
Zombies - rubbish, slow, fighters that easily rout and die, nearly cost the same as other standard units? I know they've a slightly larger squad size, but it's rare that going to ome into play given slow speed and poor stats(including fear).
Skelehorsemen - the worse calvary in game, knights of the realm even with 3 less units is cheaper and 3x better.

Empire
Mortar - I presume you don't like this unit as you've made it ridulously over expensive.
lvl 3 ice mage?


Greenskin
lv 3 goblin mage?
scorps & spiders are basically slot fillers and you've doubled them in price?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 11:50:13 PM by Darkmancer » Logged

Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay:
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 12:06:51 AM »

Darkmancer hi,

dont know from what to start hm, ok lets start from Bone Giant, i think you are reffering to ballistic yes he got 0... blame warhammer as it is taken from 4th edition book and he got 6 strenght. and he is suppose to be alternative for chariots as they crash the game from what i know

ok lets go to overpriced troops

zombies - i added them immune to fear, as the description in game say, try them now you might like them

skelehorsemen - well i wouldnt call them the worse as you said earlier they got this advantage of shock horror and are able to kill stuff, and really if your saying they are worse three times than 9/9 knights of the realm i dont know if we are playing the same game ?

mortar - well hes killing rate suggest its right price, people a play with dont hesitate to buy it at that price, and now hes mobile unit

scorpion/spider - they got this thing terror, makes normal regiments run a lot, dont think 120gc/150gc is good for such attribute sorry

as for mages, every race got one mage that can reach lvl 3 and one that can reach lvl 2, and as for slot fillers you got tons of units, very small cavaleries, small infantries try them

did i answered your questions ?
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 02:40:24 AM »

Sorry i normally omit the Balistic skill with melee units.  Anyway

BoneG: 6 3 6 5 6 1 4 8 armour 4 . unbreakable
...Troll: 6 3 5 4 3 1 3 4 armour 3 , regenerates wounds, magic resistance

Is the bone giant worth over 3 trolls?

Fear ins't the main problem with zombies, panic tests for losing over 25% over the units, and losing combat rounds and disintagrating due too low leadership are.  I never saw zombies used before points systems were into-duced, the only reason they're use now is due to they're low point usage.  at 240 gp, you get 2x zombie for 1x standard so you can afford to use them as cannon fodder, although slow movement is a problem.  Unless you've made them unbreakable they are not worth 400gp ish price.

Yes scorps/spids cause terror but are easily riped to pieces, even low quality units quite often don't break and will quickly dispatch them.  They certainly arn't overpowered in general games I don't think they warrent a 2x price increase.  Greenskins are supposed to be a horde playstyle, that requires cheap units to bulk out your main force, thats what the spids,scorps, gobs, and bolt throwers are for, but they need to be cheap for it too work Smiley

Not havig a lvl 3 vampire is understandable.  But no lvl 3 ice mage is just rotten to those who like ice spells (frankly firemage is used to often), and the orcs loose a nice alternative in a weaker but cheap lvl 3 mage, again it seems a pointless loss.

I still think motar is to high a price when cheap arty is an empire advantage, plus orc lobber is cheaper.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 03:15:01 AM by Darkmancer » Logged

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Darkmancer
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 02:55:00 AM »

Re Skele Horse

I once engaged a merc calvary squad with a unit of skel hrose holding a heart of woe, they lost and exploded, i then charged another skele horsemen into the merc calv, they lost too Sad

Rerember normal calvary have w/s 4 and s4.  Skele have w/s2 and s3 plus take aditional loses when they lose a round of combat, and with those stats they lose often even vs standard units.  The fear is useful, but normal calvary causes plenty of rout tests anyway with strong stats, and high probobility of flank charges.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 03:13:28 AM by Darkmancer » Logged

Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay:
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
alavet
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 07:25:41 AM »

could you please compose some document with list of units and prices for them (with special markups whats diffirience agaisnt standard units (i.e. terror, not die when fleeing, removed unit, avaliable level3) and so on?
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