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Author Topic: New Balance revamped  (Read 15121 times)
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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 01:54:33 PM »

@alavet there is attached file in first post with xls file documenting all changes done, and what default regiments cost. but keep it mind it is a little out of date, some minor changes have been done, ill upload new file after ill add last unit i have in plans ;]

@darkmancer about bone giant, he also have Two-handed weapon, so that adds to his strenght with total of 8, and yeah i think he is worth 3 trolls. The diffrence with unit that can run away and one that wont is very big i think. As for his price i started with 1450 and went down with it, he is now at about 930 and i think it will be a final price.

- zombies, from what i noticed they fare pretty well in battle right now, didnt noticed them routing and dying before engaging in melee, and what slow movement you have in mind ? they are M4 so normal infantry speed

- scorp/spider well they are easily ripped if you send them alone, but they have other uses M5 with terror for 120 is too low in my opinion, yours might be diffrent and its ok, but this mod this price suits them better

- if mortar would cost 450 all i can think of is that every empire army would have 3 of those, and with 3 of those they would tear every and each important regiment in enemy army

I think darkmancer its just a diffrent approach to balance with you and me, i want to balance game by changing prices/sizes and you by forcing limits to regiments, guess thats why your so negative Smiley but you played with it at least once ? or you saying all those things based solely on numbers ?

P.S. and about story with skeleton horsemen ;] well i think we all had some funny stories, like mine that goblins with BoD killed BGK 11/12 ;] or that fresh unit of bigguns with BoD lost to greatswords and they didnt lost a single head etc

in those cases i say "dice happens" Wink
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 01:58:17 PM »

hey wkyurny ,can you make troll 3 spiders 3 and scorp 3 o6 ?

and what do you think about increazing +25% the bone giant size, you can do that with gimp :O is that it is a giant and should be taller,, and biguns +15% and ogres +25 , in the descriptions, they all are bigger and taller than human and sprites are only wihter.

it just to make a better good looking... if wanna know how to doit, ask me.. iam on hamachi now
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ito maquiesves
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2010, 04:48:09 PM »

This has nothing to do with balancing styles, its to do with opinions on unit strengths and side playstyles.

Best solution is to put my money where my mouth is hence...

i will create a side of 10 knights of the realm (9 units each).  You can create a side with 10 skele horsemen (12 units each).  No items.



Despite my side costing less, and having a quarter less units I bet I will rip you side to pieces.

If I win you have to use 3x units of zombies in the next tornament and your not allowed to use any ghouls, skele warriors.
If you win I'll accept whatever penalty you want.

Accept?

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The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2010, 06:42:52 PM »

yes of course darkmancer, those tests are really great!

and after that we will test mortar vs dwarfs, ill make a side of 10 mortarts and youll make 10 dwarves, and altough mortar is cheaper ill bet he will tear your army apart

this is what those tests are good for... they represent one situation that might happen on battlefield, you negate the rest
btw didnt see you raging about point system, in 5k/15 skel horsemen cost 3 points just like knights of the realm and i dont see you saying one thing about it

you were wrong about many things from yours post 1 in here.. raging about bone giant strenght while you didnt even bothered to check it etc. in my opinion you are making decisions about things too fast

as for yours penalty i think i got it ! you will take a cold shower

@lordbraprus

dont want to make spidres scorp or troll 3/3, not to mention darkmancer would kill me if i did Smiley as for sprites i know how to do that but i dont see a point in doing so

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Darkmancer
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2010, 08:23:48 PM »

Motars and dwarfs are both vastly different units made for entirely different things.

Horsemen and knight are both calvary units, and are basically speak intended for the same job.  They are comparable units and thus is a fairly valid test.  I'm saying the fear, unbreakability, and +3 units, is not worth the loss of strenght, w/s, iniative and leadership, along with the aditional loses the horsemen recieve.  A straight 10v10 match would demonstrate that quite clearly.

Re bone giant, i admited i was wrong but i still thought he was to expensive.  You obviously agreed as he lost 25% of his cost and gained a double handed sword.

I didn't have anything to do with 5k/15 balance which is a completely different system anyway why you brought that up I don't know.

This isn't a personal attack it's just an oppinion on the pro's/cons on each unit, unexpected things can and do happen with DO but horsemen getting trounced is fairly common in my experiance.

And zombies, they are basically the same price as ghouls and warriors, would you ever pick zombies?  I doubt may people will.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 08:30:57 PM by Darkmancer » Logged

Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay:
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2010, 09:08:13 PM »

lets get clear two things:

1. I didnt add bone giant two handed weapon or lowered his price because of you, he had two handed weapon from start and you would noticed that if you would download mod from hamachi channel

2. I didnt said this version is complete, it will be before tournament if it wins or loose the voting, im guessing it will loose as lordbraprus is crazy about this thing ;] but anyways its my way of balacing regiments, start from too much and lower it, and as he started as a new unit i didnt have the base to compare him with anything. But after lots of games lately its obvious he needed to be lowered, as so this happened... based on experience from game and not only on numbers

cheers
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2010, 09:47:01 PM »

True Wku. My brother has been fuking crazy these days.
Warning! Dont touch him. Out of control Tongue

@Darkmancer: !!!
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2010, 10:21:36 PM »

1) never said you did, I just said you agreed with me that it was too expensive, it's a game no need to get pissy.

2) again I never said it was, if I thought it was complete it be pointless talking about changing the unit balances.  I'm basing my opinions on the numbers you post, and past experiances of unit performance which should be valid enough unless you start with random stat & psy adjustments. 

You method of balancing is perfectly valid, the problem comes when say the greenskins are losing lots of games.  Is it because goblins are too expensive?, big uns too weak or expensive? spells? archers?  It's hard to monitor a single units performance in a game with so many completely different unit types and random outcomes as DO.  A bit of comparison between similar unit types doesn't go amiss.

If you want to ignore my opinions thats fine but you asked for them.  The challange was for a bit of messing around there's no need to get the hump.
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Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay:
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2010, 09:54:09 PM »

ok great that we have this cleared out :]

As for your opinions, they wont be ignored like anybody elses its just I didnt like the way you wrote it earlier.
After I played vs Jeronimo he had couple of ideas and some of them are now implemented.
As for yours suggestion, you pointed out this thing about lvl2/lvl3 mages, well yes i change it so that both mages are lvl 3, for now at least, and be sure zombies price will go down as i didnt knew how they will fare with that immunity to fear, one thing is sure they can take lots of ranged damage and wont run away(at least from what i saw) Wink


and a thing that i cant add to first post :

9. Vampire changed into Liche (4 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 9): he will survive a bit longer than necromancer wounds 3, and got a permanent spell "Soul Drain" (in v1.4)

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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 05:47:19 PM »

in attachment you got latest file, current version is 1.4

so say what you think, and if someone wants to play im on the channel Wink

* Changes 1.4.xls (24.5 KB - downloaded 202 times.)
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warhammerfreak
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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2010, 07:43:40 PM »

I played around 10 games with Wkurwiony over the last 2 days and I love this mod. It still needs some tweaking but i love the bone giant idea.
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"Did you know that there are those days that  even my lucky underpants with spacerockets won't help." "Then u did everything that was in your power ."
Wkurwiony
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2010, 07:51:37 PM »

here are screens of new units in armybook,
i just cant change Da Immortulz banner in army book, as they share it with Troll and i dont know how to add new one ;/ but in game they got their own banner ;]


Da Immortulz (black orcs)


Bone Giant


Liche
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alavet
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2010, 07:20:27 AM »

oh god man. this looks awesomly. where you got such great pictures?
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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2010, 06:03:19 PM »

they are from warhammer armybooks, i repainted them as they were black and white ;]
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Jim
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2010, 04:21:15 PM »

Hey, guys,

Where can I read about how to patch the DO to apply this new ruleset?
I really hope I can still join January tournament.
Just need to handle all this.
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