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Author Topic: Races in DO. Possible to add more?  (Read 5700 times)
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cuthalion
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« on: April 20, 2015, 07:31:01 PM »

If I remember correctly, when I edited campaign a few years ago, there was no possibility to add more races to DO.
There was a flag that combined race+type of a unit (like, 3 bits for race and a few more bits for class)
I was not able to make dwarves speak in a unique way during missions. They would either speak as humans or as orcs.
Goblins had their own way of speaking - same as orcs but goblins talked faster.
Is it possible to add race - say, skavens, - and add unique audio files for 'charge' 'retreat' etc like they had in SoTHR?
'die-die' when Schepke was routed Wink

On a side note, I am not an expert of table-top warhammer. Could someone provide me with links to army books for:
-Wood Elves
-Skaven
-Dwarves (not chaos dwarves, as I familiarized myself to their army book 3 years ago :p )
?

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illidan
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 07:58:14 PM »

the dwarf 8ht army book

http://www.mediafire.com/view/0iu5n5b4naao9nz/Dwarfs_(8ed)_(1).pdf
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illidan
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 08:00:06 PM »

the wood elves army book 8ht

http://www.mediafire.com/view/l4cfe24x9vf290q/Wood_Elves_(8ed).pdf
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illidan
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 08:03:06 PM »

the 8ht edition of skaven army book it not out yet i think but i found the Uniforms_and_Heraldry_of_the_Skaven


http://www.mediafire.com/view/zzbovd4brj3uold/Uniforms_and_Heraldry_of_the_Skaven.pdf
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illidan
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 08:16:48 PM »

the orc and goblin 8ed


https://vk.com/doc703852_222162588?hash=9cc9dd462477116a02&dl=4cd66f376784e2e781
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olly
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 08:28:42 PM »

Until we have a solution to new custom races and their voices, I have split the new 99 sprite xslots into Human Book 1-33 for anything Humanoid, 34-66 for Skaven (Goblin voice) & Monsters (Orc deep voice) and 67-99 for Dark Elves & Chaos (Undead voices). So when I create new sprites, I give them the same amount of frames as a sprite from an original race. Such as a Dark Elf Crossbowman will use an Undead Skeleton Archer sprite type, so their frames match and they receive the correct voice, then I just give them crossbow weapon in Wh32Edit. Aqrit can help more as he also found ways to alter existing magic stats , like decrease distance of teleport.   

Smiley  
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cuthalion
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2015, 06:59:45 AM »

By the way, Woodelf army book contains information about Dark Magic along with another type of magic. Does this mean that Dark Magic suits Wood elves? at least is it closest to them in terms of Dark Omen possibilities?
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illidan
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 10:44:14 AM »

By the way, Woodelf army book contains information about Dark Magic along with another type of magic. Does this mean that Dark Magic suits Wood elves? at least is it closest to them in terms of Dark Omen possibilities?


it depend of the game version of warhammer . Actualy they have to choose with the 8 empire magic domain + dark magic

here i a link to a dark elfe v8 tactica for the warhammer fantasy battletop game ( it is a french one but i have the 8 editon pdf book in english if you want )

https://autagereautmori.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/tactica-elfes-noirs-v8/


https://autagereautmori.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/tactica-elfes-noirs-v8/
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 11:49:13 AM by illidan » Logged
cuthalion
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 01:35:24 PM »

Well my concern is to choose a school of magic from 4 available in Dark Omen that would suite Wood Elves most. Of course, Dark Omen has limitations and it will never be possible to make a Mod fully aligned with table-top version: Either troop stats or troops structure or something else will be out of line.
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illidan
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 02:14:52 PM »

Well my concern is to choose a school of magic from 4 available in Dark Omen that would suite Wood Elves most. Of course, Dark Omen has limitations and it will never be possible to make a Mod fully aligned with table-top version: Either troop stats or troops structure or something else will be out of line.


as with wh2edit we can create mixed magic by using magic items to generate spells ( as in the linked image )

may we can have magic spell more close to the rules book of the army ,

as i remember wood elves have some life spells to bost unit like give more svg+ or regenerate and some bad attack spell like very uneffective fireball

so for wood elves magic spell  maybe a mix of orc magic with brigth magic  ( orcs magic from magic object : like "ere we go"  and " mork save us " ) and book magic from Bright Magic

it may worth a try


* spells.jpg (73.26 KB, 787x556 - viewed 145 times.)
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cuthalion
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 02:42:08 PM »

As far as I understand (correct me if I am wrong) these spells set in Editor work only in 1 mission but not in the whole campaign? E.g. if I edit plyr_arm and set a bright wizard with raise dead spell, will that raise-dead spell remain throughout the campaign or only stay in 1 mission? In both cases, it is not exactly what I would like to have but still I am curious about it, as it was not this way 3 years ago.

As for 'Mork save us' Smiley
To my mind, there are few things that make single player mode difficult:
1. To give computer tons of hard-to-beat troops - it is boring, so it only works as a change.
2. Enemy mages: a bright wizard with Conflagration of Doom and Wand of Jet really makes you nervous, and in haste of battle to neutralize him is hard. So I try to avoid providing my troops with Spelleater or Arcane Warding or Mork save us Smiley
I mean, dispel from 2 mages and maybe 1 magic resistance item is OK but not more. Except maybe last very tough missions...
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illidan
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2015, 03:34:50 PM »

he he good point ... it give me the opportunity to thank you for your Chaos Dwarf campaign ( great fun Smiley give me the mood to get into the dark omen mod community Smiley   )

so  back to the subject


in your campaign the obsidain guard have dispel magic in magic items ( see linkeed picture ) and keep it to the very end off the campaign as they survive of course Smiley

for the difficulty the game must be : i cant say ... i tend to seek for fun with an arcade game play where we can use every posibility of the game :

like tactical withdraw /
short kamikazee wizard action to kill enemy artilery and quick withdraw /
make shield wall with strong unit to support an unstoppable wave of ennemy /
manage a square defence ( like in the very old but very good zulu movie 1964) /
set a lighting attack with a full cavalery army liste ( like the charge of the light brigade movie )
use 3 very bad units  to get run a very strong ennemy unit by charging him from 3 sides ( front, side, and back side )  


have been said that i have no experience in making dark omen campaign but that the way i tend to go Smiley

note side : i tend to think ranged unit are very strong in dark Omen and dont talk about artilery unit , must be a way to give more space for medium and heavy armured infantery unit , like making a support wizard class

all to be balanced of course

but a good army list could be 4 or 5 infantry unit , 1 or 2 cavalery unit , a support wizard , 1 or 2 ranged unit , 1 artilery unit , and maybe a free lance monster unit as a jungler unit ( from lol experience : how can quickely switch is close combat location )






* dwarf campaing.jpg (90.98 KB, 787x557 - viewed 132 times.)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 03:42:09 PM by illidan » Logged
cuthalion
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2015, 04:13:50 PM »

he he good point ... it give me the opportunity to thank you for your Chaos Dwarf campaign
Welcome Smiley

As for Obsidian Guard, their dispel is set using a means different from editing army file.
Each mission has a .ctl script file that is responsible for all units behaviour during the mission. I had to set all magic spells to dwarf lord, obsidian guards, fire golem for each mission in corresponding .ctl file.
Just I read in one of the threads - I do not remember which thread - that with new researches it became possible to create mixed magic books, but probably I did not quite understand that part, and I am too busy irl yet to actively research myself Smiley

Addon: That way with .ctl file has a flaw that I would like to avoid if possible: it sets magic to a unit with identifier. For example, Dwarf Lord has id=1 (like Morgan's main cavalry unit) and all spells are set to a unit with id=1. If now someone wants to edit Chaos Dwarves campaign and substitute lord with a different type of unit, he or she will have to edit all 25-30 ctl files and remove spells from unit with id=1 from all of them ) That's why to edit stuff in Army file or to create a new magic school for the whole campaign would be cooler.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 04:19:18 PM by cuthalion » Logged
olly
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2015, 05:34:24 PM »

Good discussion, Cuthalion if you look in B1_01 of the Skaven mod there is Ghabry's latest WH32Edit with the new .xml database for the xslots included, where you can assign mixed magic etc. like in Illidan's screen shots. Also the readme in Mods Skaven PRG_ENG has the list of sprite type Aqrit mentioned.

For anyone one else wanting to learn about making custom new campaigns with new units, please read this guide ->

http://forum.dark-omen.org/campaigns/how-to-create-new-mods-and-campaigns-t1251.0.html;msg12683#msg12683

Aqrit and me once discussed if it were possible to create a new magic list but the effects would have to be same as hardcoded in the engine. However, it may be possible one day to simply use the same effect like Ere we go gives +1 strength but have a different new icon for it, for new races to use.

Smiley
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cuthalion
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 06:10:33 PM »

Cuthalion if you look in B1_01 of the Skaven mod there is Ghabry's latest WH32Edit with the new .xml database for the xslots included, where you can assign mixed magic etc. like in Illidan's screen shots. Also the readme in Mods Skaven PRG_ENG has the list of sprite type Aqrit mentioned.


Yeah I will test it myself once I have time to finally deal with something new for DO. But I have not found an answer to my question just yet: Illidan's screenshot with Obsidian Guard having dispel magic...3 years ago such spells would disappear after the first passed mission altogether. Fact that Obsidian Guard had dispel throughout the campaign is explained by .ctl script. So if not much changed in that respect, still it will be impossible to assign spells to units this way.

However it may be possible to create a new magic book - like 5th book after Bright, Ice, Waagh and Death - and assign a list of possible spells to be given to that book, that would be really cool even though the whole list of spells is limited.
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