[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

My apologies, I didn't make myself clear.   

The suggestion was regarding the existence or non-existence of the undead CR-special rule in the Dark Omen racial specific skeleton flag, not about balance issues or generalship.

If the theory about the skeleton flag is correct, then wouldn't the unit without this flag last longer?
All units are fearless, unbreakable and have the same stats, but if the Skeleton flag works the way we think it does, it would be obvious.

/Mr Shadow

Hello again!

I realized that I have neglected to mention the following.
You are quite right that the game needs a way of controlling several units at the same time, and there are many ways of doing this, most common to select and to group, manually, the units you want to control.

How about changing the focus from regiments, to Brigades
Before the battle you organize your units into larger groups that work and move together on the battlefield.

A rather nice example of this can be found in "Sid Meiers: Antietam", not a perfect but interesting tactical simulator.

Hörs senare!
/Mr Shadow

Very nice test!
Not quite conclusive perhaps, but I like the fact that you set out to find out about this.

How about;
Pitting Skeleton Warriors against another units of Skellis?
One flagged Skel unit charged in front and back from two enemy Skel units.
And a mirrored, but unflagged set-up.

Wouldn't this prove it? Fear and difference in stats would not be conclusive.

/Mr Shadow

While I havn't been around for as long as since the days of 3rd or 4th WH edition (or the Dark Ages, for that matter )

From what I know, that rule has been around for a very long time, but never in the core rules but instead in the army-book.
However, I never really thought about that they have implemented it in Dark Omen! I guess that that is what the flag, "racial flag specific to Skeletons"
Damn, thats good news -I have to make quite a few changes to my Campaign Remake! 

/Mr Shadow

A very tricky subject Alavet.
Your standpoint that these games are supposed to be fun, and first and foremost be enjoyable for all players is without question, and one that I agree to most wholeheartedly.

But it is my opinion that to force artificial rules, like one about who must attack or even those we already have about lone mages are in the long run counterproductive. And dare I say, most ungentlemenlike. 
The more rules about what can and can't be done on the battlefield will only reinforce the notion that this game is about winning and not about having fun. Any mention of such a rule in the heat of battle will unescapably turn into a personal affront, thus lessen the fun for both players greatly!

That we have rules regarding how we build armies is a different matter altogether. This stems from the fact, that I am sure is apparent to all, that the game of Dark Omen is not perfectly balanced in Multiplayer.
This is the tool, and in my opinion the only tool that we ought to use, to correct imperfections and to ensure that the players enter battle on as equal footing as possible!

The inherent fault with artillery in Dark Omen is that in the confined space of the game it is far too reliable for its cost.

But this defect can be delt with, we just haven't found the perfect solution yet. 

Sincerely
Mr Shadow

Let me have the great honor of becoming the first one to welcome you to this splendid Dark Omen site!

I am sure you will have a great time, and if you have trouble making the game work, there are grand people here that may be able to assist you!

Hope to cross swords with you some time.
Best regard
Mr Shadow

Sign me in!

And this time I won't take it easy on you....

/Mr Shadow

Thanks Ghabry, I will try the wh32edit instead of the older version!

About the Banners and Sprites; is it better to overwrite or create new files?
Has anyone experienced any problem with either?

Thanks again!
Mr Shadow.

Hello Dark Omen Forum!

I have decided to embark upon a quest to re-make the Single-player Campaign, and to make this campaign available to the Dark Omen Community.
However, before I begin in ernest I need some advice from people that have dabbled with this before.

What I want to do is this:
1. Change stats and units, both the rooster for the player and his opponents on the battlefield. (This is a piece of cake, I am very well acquainted with both wh2edit and wh32edit)

2. Change a few sprites and banners. (This is more of a challenge, and one I need to know a little bit more about; I have the right programs for the job, but I want to know if when changing sprites and especially banners if there is something I need to keep in mind.)


So I would be very grateful if someone would advice me in that, as well as in the following things:
Is there some way of making the install of the changed files easier than just inserting them into a zip-file, or is the procedure acceptable?

I don't seem to be able to access the first three maps in wh2edit, all I get when I try to enter them is a error-message;
 Runtime Error 103 at OEOC:071B. etc.
Does anybody have a clue as to what I can do about it? It's of no greater importance if I can't modify these three maps, but it sure would be fun if I could.

Best regards.
Mr Shadow.

This is an old post I know, sorry about that, but I want to add this:

Not sure if the rules of Warhammer are incorporated fully in Dark Omen, but if they are then the difference between
the Countess Guard and the Greatswords is this:
The polearm (halberd) that the Guard uses gives them +1 ST in combat.
The Two handed weapon gives the Greatswords +2 ST always, but lowers IN to 0, exept when they charge.

They both have their uses, but I like the Greatswords better

/Mr Shadow

Congratulations Alavet!

It was nice doing battle against you, and what a battle! (I remember it well since I made several dreadful mistakes )
The map was Border Counties btw.
And you are wrong in supposing that the Rock Lobber wasn't very useful, the first shot took out half of a Glade Guard regiment and there after proved a terror and nuisance through the rest of the game, an itch I couldn't scratch because a sea of Greenskins was in the way, and I didn't have nearly enough units to just go barging in, while that blasted Rock Lobber kept firing at me AAARRGGHHHHHHHHH!!! 

That suspiciously cowardly Treeman wasn't much help either (and he was fighting orcs, what's up with that?) -I think he was betting the other way and threw the fight 
Well, atleast he managed to kill that Rock Lobber in the endgame, only to die "gloriously" on the hands of half a regiment of Orc Boys only a few seconds to soon...

A great game and a great tournament Alavet! I had a ton of laughs!

/Mr Shadow

Well, knowing the principal the game is based on is rather useful, it makes it a little easier to choose the right man for the job.
However I don't know how much they have acctually implemented of the Warhammer game mechanics in Dark Omen, some of it seems simplified (and perhaps rightly so) or maybe the rules were different back then, after all this was like 3rd or 4th Edition.

Here goes:

MO (Movement) : How fast the unit travels, Cavalry units move according to the MO of their steed; usually 7 or 8.
In Warhammer the value is translated directly into inches, dont know how the did it in Dark Omen.

WS (Weapon Skill) : If this value is higher than your opponents in close combat you are more likely to hit him with your attacks.

BS (Ballistic Skill) : How well the unit handles ranged weapons, the higher value the more likely to hit the intended target. And in Dark Omen the higher BS the faster reload.

ST (Strength) : When an attack hits, the strength of the attack is compared to the toughness of the target. If the strength is higher then it is more likely to acctually wound the target.

TO (Toughness) : See above, the higher TO value the less likely to suffer damage.

WO (Wounds) : Just like Hitpoints, when an attack hits a model (sprite) and successfully wound (ST vs TO) and this wound is not negated by armour, then the model (sprite) lose a Wound.

IN (Initiative) : A unit with a higher IN value then their opponents in close combat, gets to make their attacks first.

AT (Attacks) : The number of attacks the model (sprite) pummel the enemy with in close combat.

LS (Leadership) : A high LD value means that the unit is less likely to to flee when taking casualties from shooting or in close combat, or from fear or panic.

I feel im rather in over my head here, if I am to explain it in detail then, well...then I would have my work cut out for me for the coming hour 
I think you will have to make do with that explanation, if things are utterly confusing, then ask away and I'll see what I can do

Best Regards
Mr Shadow

Ps. Hope to meet you on the battlefield for a practical demonstration

After much ado, i have decided -Add me to the list!

I mean, why did I join if not to make bloody combat?

/Mr Shadow

First of all, I must salute this ambitious enterprize! (click my heels and salutes)
Second, a question: If I understand correctly, this project is not only about graphics but is an attempt to create or modify gameplay mechanics, a "rule-set" if you will?
If so, I would like to share my view on what makes a great RTS,RTT.

You have already pointed out two important factors; ease of command and overview.
One other thing to consider is; by how many factors that you can control, do you win or loose the game?
The more the greater the tactical game.

Examples:
Games like Warcraft, C&C etc. gives you this: You either kill your opponent or not. You can also use terrain to create a bottleneck to your advantage, but basically it is a mechanic of rock-paper-scissors.

Our beloved Dark Omen is based on Warhammer mechanics, that is what makes it so good  , meaning we can hide our units, bind units in combat and flank them, and Moral in addition to the above.

Total War:Shogun (I'm not impressed by their following games) contains the above and adds Fatige, High Ground and terrain, and Panic.

I have yet to find the perfect tactical game, but I do not despair! 
So much for the general suggestions, the specifics will have to wait.
It is late and I have to sleep.

/Mr Shadow
Ps. Lycka till med projektet Mikademus!

I always had something of a soft spot for Games Workshop products, but when I picked up a demo of Dark Omen in 98 I didn't know much about the hobby.
What I did know however was that I loved tactical games 

Dont know if you remember that Demo; it was only one map, Defence of Bogenhafen!
Suffice to say -I was hooked.