[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum | Warhammer Dark Omen | Multiplayer | Rules and Standards
Discussion "How to act in multiplayer"

[bembelimen]

So here you can post, which points should be insert to this thread.

[Flak]

dont move troops around to see hidden troops before deployment

[Grend]

make some agreement about when to stop moving units. You could wait until the opponent clicks ready, and then move all your units to somewhere else

[alavet]

im not big master of long essays just short few points:

-players may use everything they want if they both agree (obvious)

but some "codex" may be implemented:
1)if any of player does have artillery and another doesnt have, player w/o artillery should attack first. he may wait some reasonable time to regroup (for example if he didnt know that the opponent had artillery) but not very long. forcing player with artillery to attack is unfair and unethical cause in this case player cant use his artillery and takes disadvantage which should be prevented
-if both players have artillery, then the side with more "cheap" artillery should attack. for example if one player have canon and another player holding mortair then player with canon should attack (or it may be solved anotehr way by agreement of players, for example  defending side i nthis way allowed only for 3 shots etc)
-if both player have similar artillery (for example orcish lobber vs mortair) then players may agree not using artillery at all at this battle.(or make another agreement between themselves)

2) if any player has only 1 regiment in the combat (no mater what unit is) he is only allowed to run away/charge/teleport within first 3 rounds when he became alone. after 3 round cycles (when blue bar goes to the end and u getting mana) any lone regiment forced to go in close combat, no matter what type of unit is it.

3) dont radically move your units after opponent pressed "prepared to combat".

[Crusoe]

make some agreement about when to stop moving units. You could wait until the opponent clicks ready, and then move all your units to somewhere else

....AND AGAIN, i have been remarking this point since....  a year (Olly knows that and others too) before this forum exists.

Solution is very simple, the host deploys first and the invited deploys after him so the second one on deployment has the ability to see all hidden units (if they arent well hidden).
The order for attack should be:
- both in charge at once (this would be always active no matter who hosts, deploys first or what kind of unit they have)
- host should attack first (it uppose that host normally choose a good map for his troops so he may assume the risk)***
- invited shoud attack in second place.

***Players should never knows what kind of troops does the other player has.
***This mode of playing should no be affected by artillery units.
***if hosts has artillery then he must attack first but only using 1 unit army or more.

...obviously this is someted to erros, pls review it.

----------------------
Due to the thread exposed on this topic, i feel that this is the right side to continue whit the wizards theme.
(when wizard is the last unit)

Neutral solutions could be:
- Teleporting magic ALWAYS banned from multi games.***
- When mage is the last unit he only can teleport 3 times, after that he must go in direct battle and if he kills and army then he could teleport 2 times more ...... 1 army destroyed, 1 teleporting more , .... no more teleporting magic rounds left.
- A limited times for teleporting and then no more rounds.

***Its no so confortable this but isnt confortable too when u have a mage and u must go in meele forced by rules.
This is what i call neutral solutions.

Nice thread bembelimen.

[alavet]

i feel good about yoru sugegstion for mages, but u said nothign about jsut runnign away and not teleporting.

also your rules is rather hard. i mean very lot conditions in rules doesnt makes life good for newbies.
just imagine new player joins us and see wall of rules which he should do, which he shouldnt and why and how many units he need to kill before he may teleport and so on...

banning teleportign spell is very bad, cause its important part of tactic (before there is one mage left)

p.s. OT: you may change your avatar now btw w/o this frame. also your status "giant scoripin" doesnt correlate to your avatar

[Flak]

I agree with that alavet, it needs to be simple and nice
In my experience most people here behave themselves, it is not spose to be a million little rules, just a few headlines, so it doesnt make us look like Dark Omen Fascists, when we are Dark Omen Fanatics 

none of this 1st has to deploy and this forcing to attack
We are talking Gentleman rules here, like dont re-arrange for forever, in tournament decide which army to use before entering the game and so on

I am firmly against any rule that takes away tactical freedom

Teleporting cant be illegal, there is a big chance that Dark and Bright will start with it not fair for those mages.
Also Teleporting is an important offensive tactic

[bembelimen]

-players may use everything they want if they both agree (obvious)

• This rules will only take action, if BOTH player agree

I think, this is a very good and important point and should be the "first rule".

dont move troops around to see hidden troops before deployment

make some agreement about when to stop moving units. You could wait until the opponent clicks ready, and then move all your units to somewhere else

• Before you press start ingame WAIT for your opponent, so when both player wrote "ready" (or something similar) both should press start together. Don't move after both wrote "ready" and your opponent pressed start.

I think with this "agreement" is no need to make something like "host deploys first, join second". When I play, I normaly place my troops and say "rdy" when I'm finished, if my opponent press start or write "ready" too, I press start, otherwise if he say "one moment" (or something like that) both player can continue moving their troops till one player say "ready" again. This seems fair to me.

1)if any of player does have artillery and another doesnt have, player w/o artillery should attack first. he may wait some reasonable time to regroup (for example if he didnt know that the opponent had artillery) but not very long. forcing player with artillery to attack is unfair and unethical cause in this case player cant use his artillery and takes disadvantage which should be prevented

I personally disagree  with this rule, cause you cannot blame me, that you buy artillery (for example).

2) if any player has only 1 regiment in the combat (no mater what unit is) he is only allowed to run away/charge/teleport within first 3 rounds when he became alone. after 3 round cycles (when blue bar goes to the end and u getting mana) any lone regiment forced to go in close combat, no matter what type of unit is it.

- Teleporting magic ALWAYS banned from multi games.***
- When mage is the last unit he only can teleport 3 times, after that he must go in direct battle and if he kills and army then he could teleport 2 times more ...... 1 army destroyed, 1 teleporting more , .... no more teleporting magic rounds left.
- A limited times for teleporting and then no more rounds.

What about only denying teleport and press the charge button if the mage/shaman/vampire is the last regiment?  I don't think, that it is necessary to force a mage in CC (let him move, you can go in a corner of a map and wait for him)

[tovertrut]

i dont rly like the rule about the person who doesnt have artillery is forced to attack,although i my enemy has artillery and i dont i usualy do attack after a minute or 2 because i dont want to stretch the game and know hes not gone come out to far.

and i especialy dont agree with the part where if both have artillery the one with cheapest must attack,if i bring artillery even if its just a bolt thrower or cannon i will not be eager to abbandon it...specialy if i know enemy has a mortar.

[Crusoe]

very lot conditions in rules doesnt makes life good for newbies.

3k/10
5k/15
so on
Factions
DOst
...etc

aren't those "conditions"?
aren't a lot?
newbies know those rule settings before entering battle?
isnt enough or newbies still needs more battle systems?
isnt enough to be a "super DO player against AI" and  a "super newbie" on multi games?
one rule added to those "rules" is a kind of "overheating" for newbies?
have u seen a newbie asking why does he cannot save his winner army, why cant he use BGK whit BoW or why cant he use his mage freely?.... and so on again

whatever we decide on this forum, whatever we sign, whatever we agree, whatever we do, did or will do, must be set on DO wiki page and then it becomes a real rule.

[warhammerfreak]

I have a rule to suggest for deploying the troops. Why don't we use the tabletop rules??
Its like this: first person deploys a unit wich can't be replaced (maybe a little if other units don't fit) the second person deploys his first unit (wich can't be replaced either) and so on until all units are deployed.

I really like the rules Alavet proposed and i think its best just to go into combat with your mage if its the last unit on the battlefield because you should actually buy them for what they do during the game or to get magic defense. ( don't really know about pistoliers)

[bembelimen]

I'm a little bit surprised, do you really need "rules" how to place regiments?

I had never (never never never) the problem, that an opponent waited for me to place his regiments, I never press start before my opponent said "ok" so I ask again: do you really need a rule/guideline for placing troops?

The most common situation is: while you place your troops, your opponent press start, so you cannot move your places troop (or you would be a lamer  ). That's why I suggest:

• Before you press start ingame WAIT for your opponent, so when both player wrote "ready" (or something similar) both should press start together. Don't move after both wrote "ready" and your opponent pressed start.

very lot conditions in rules doesnt makes life good for newbies.

3k/10
5k/15
so on
Factions
DOst
...etc

aren't those "conditions"?

There is a different, if there are a lot of different easy rulesets or if there are a lot of "conditions" in one ruleset. I think that was the meaning of alavets post.

And beware! This collection is not related to a specific rule like 5000/15, this should be a common guideline (like a gentlemen agreement)

[Flak]

exactly bembelimen

 i too havnt had this issue and find it odd that this is a problem

Make your own tactics for your army, ofcz it can differ where you want your troops when you see what you face but its a simple question of moving the troops back or forward and while i re-adjust, id only expect the opponent to re-adjust his army when he sees what he is facing in my army aswell.

but aslong as no deliberate attempt is made to cheat with this i think we need to maintain tactical freedom

if a player use this tactics i doubt that very many would play that player for very long anyway, it would, i have no doubt annoy most honorable players very fast

[Crusoe]

i like warhammerfreak proposition, deploy 1 by 1.
sometimes is neccesary.

about mages, it suppose that your mage is gonna be always the last unit entering battle.
i got an army that uses 2 mages, so if i must send them in meele then my army should be dismissed. I still believe that mages forced to go in meele isnt good idea.
some rounds is the best for me.

....and the last unit, no matter wich one is, should be never forced to run.

[alavet]

What about only denying teleport and press the charge button if the mage/shaman/vampire is the last regiment?  I don't think, that it is necessary to force a mage in CC (let him move, you can go in a corner of a map and wait for him)

just imagine how mummies +1 coward regiment like a ghoul try to outrun vampire or "get him in the corner". it wilnt happen and even ghouls would be able to corner him then he might kill them before mummies come and start to run away.
or simply imagine how 2 mummies going to "corner" vampire.

i think 3 rounds is enough for mage before he should go to cc. i mean in "real life" and even logically at DO world mages cannot use hit n run tactics cause if it would be allowed (which means simply unlimited mana) then 1 mage on horse would be easilly able to kill million skeletons and other slow moving units.
its very logical and i think obvious that mages have limited amount of mana for the battle and running away jsut generates you additional mana which you dont "deserve".
yes i know you may said "its allowed by the game so its fair" but i dont agree - DO doesnt have any original patches, and i guess it will be soon fixed if developers issued patch.

another example of this concept i came form other game (Kings Bounty; Russian game which should soon came ot the European market, battles are turn based and little similar to HOMM) hero presented as an a mage and have regenarating mana, but after 6-7 round of the battle mana regeneration drmaatically reduces untill it come to 0 at 10th round. thats made to prevent hero use his dragons to overrun slow running units and abuse with offense spells.
hope u understand this concept....

I have a rule to suggest for deploying the troops. Why don't we use the tabletop rules??
Its like this: first person deploys a unit wich can't be replaced (maybe a little if other units don't fit) the second person deploys his first unit (wich can't be replaced either) and so on until all units are deployed

im sorry but it seems to be not rule that is possible/reasonable to use at current DO mechanism.

you never 100% knows when your opponent already placed his regiment or not so it cant be "turn based".
also there is some situations where player A might see army of player B cause of better position but player B unable to see player A. and since we have very limited list of maps which most developed for defending strategy (from singleplayer) then it appears that maps not properly balanced and in the most of them one side will have little advantage if use this "turn based deployment".

i think bemb way to place armies is enough and good for most gentlemen players (and i dont want to play against another ones).

ive faced with this sutuation when player change his army after i pressed start but it wasnt too often and usually part of my fault cause i press START before saying anything.