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Conquest 2nd Game Chat Room

[Flak]

maybe you are correct or maybe increasing cost and max allowed for flaggelants was too rash

[Cholio]

Alavet adviced me to do some testing, since he easily beat me in both of our battles that we have had so far. So i did some tests vs sipax's drow armies.

armybuild 1
1 cannon 1 mortar 2 fanatics 1 wizard with book of ashur 2 halberds and 1 archer

this army build worked "well" vs sipax drows, i won with having 1 fanatic regiment with 2 fanatics left in it in the field
the 2nd battle i lost, mainly cause he had lots of cavalry that outran my artillery fire.


armybuild 2
1 mortar with arcane warding 1 cannon 1 wizard with book of ashur 1 cavalry with potion of strength 1 fanatic 1 halberder

this army sucked badly, one his drows got close it massacred it in melee, running them over completely


armybuild 3
2 mortars 2 fanatics 2 halberds and 1 swordsman

again the mortars was outrun by his cavalry, but was both shot down quickly by two regiments of archers once they got close, but i still believe they did some decent damage to his army, but since he had so many units it did not make much of a difference. But i figured that having lots of melee units as well i'd match his massive force. But alas I did not.


armybuild 4
2 fanatics one having arcane warding 2 archers 1 wizard with book of ashur 3 halberds

Wanted to see how an army without artillery would work, and it did surprisingly well cause the archers did much damage to his army, but it was still outmatched fairly easy because his cavalry flanked me and hit my archers.


Armybuild 5
2 fanatics 1 mortar 1 archer 1 mage 1 cavalru and 1 halberd
I lost this one without making any sufficent damage to sipax's drows. My cavalry engaged one of his cavalry units in battle and ran away after some time with heavy casualties. My mortar managed to decimate another of his cavalry units to 3 men, but his one charged the mortar team and slew it. My halberds was chased away, but returned only to be mowed down by spells from his necromancer


1 empire cav cost 999 gold vs 1 drow cav cost 999 gold.
Ended in empire cavalry fleeing away and being run down completely.
Drow cavalry had 7-9 ( i think ) units left alive.

2nd test with the cavalry ended pretty much the same, empire cavalry running off and the drow cavalry having 9 units left alive


1 halberd vs 1 drow swordsmen
halberds were slaughtered and the drow swordsmen had 12 units left alive out of 18.




I believe that empire is to dependant on its ranged units. The flaggelants are the ones that are the ones that are most effiecent in melee, since halberds and swordsmen tends to run away alot. Cavalry are an expensive unit, so if i was to combine artillery and cavalry it would become a relatively small army, which chould easily be overrun by a massive force such as drow or goblins. And most units of empire runs away very easily exept for the flaggelants ofcourse. The drow cavalry is immune to fear and has leadership 8 whilst empire cavalry costs the same and has only 7 in leadership, so the empire cavalry needs to either be reduced in cost or boosted in stats.

So overall in my oppinion the empire team is pretty bad. May be so that my armybuilds sucks but anyhow the units are overall pretty weak ^^ the only ones capable of relying on is the flaggelant, since they wont run away. So belive that the empire team needs some reconsidering in balance.


if sipax could post his armybuilds it would be helpful . and please leave your oppinion of the outcomes as well.

[sipax]

My army builds:

1) Assassin with Skab. Sword./ x3 Cavalry units/ Wizard+Wand / 2 Archers reqiments / 1 Infantry (swordsmans)
<- Mobile army with ranged troops and mystic.

2) Assasins / x3 Cavalry / 1 Wizard / 5 Infantries.
<- Mostly hand-to-hand horde.

This is all armies what i had.
Im totally agree with Cholio-
Empire cavalry must be reduced in cost. Think 800-850 or about it, is good for that really light cavalry. (cowardly & weak)

But in some battles Cholio has the opportunity to win, but some mortair misses crushed it.

[alavet]

yes, seems that empire need to be busted in meele units. flagellants has x2 attack and good battle stats so they might kill very fast, but they have no armour so they getting killed fast as well..
x3 flagellants maybe too much still.. at least not x3 flagellants and x2 mortairs at same combo - it working so deadfull on some maps (like Tutorial, Goblin forest at Night, Border Counties, Vingertone etc). i suggest to somehow fix halberds & knights and perhars add some another meele unit? dunno.


//and full list of units with at least prices (and better+stats) will help balancing a lot.

[sipax]

Alavet, think flaggelats is ok, they just not effective against big hordes.

[Cholio]

The empire units are indeed to costy and to weak, and they need to be more balanced. I believe that the great swordsmen should be made to some sort of medium infantry, since they now cost more then the halberds but have the same stats. I believe that having the halberds as "cannon fodder" so to say might work and keeping them around the current stats they have atm.

While moddifying the great swordsmen so that they can be used to rely on as medium infantry, and they wont run away as easily as halberdiers. And i think that the cavalry should be boosted in stats, not in cost, since the grail knights are unique and expensive so they are hard to get a hold on. If they are reduced in cost the empire team will still have mainly weak melee units, leaving them still vulnerable in melee and having to rely to much on the artillery.

[sipax]

Great Swordsmans had Two handed weapon, which has +2 ST bonus i belive but -IN so they must be good to support cavalry in fight or be offence infantry, and has not too bad LD, Cholio. 7 LD is standart for all empire troops, while 5-7 for orcs&goblins so empire infantry isnt too bad. They cost as light infantry.
Maybe halberdiers need +2 mans in reqiment as they very useless. (+ polearm gives bonus only then charge)

UPD- hmm it seems like goblins has 6 LD. Strange. (they has big reqiments and not bad fight skills with VERY low cost)

[Cholio]

Yeah i haven't looked in to the stats of any units particulary deep, im just throwing out suggestions of what might work of an army overall ^^.

[Flak]

i agree with both sipax and cholio

empire seems too weak, i defiantly think we will go back to the original allowed 3 flags,
i will also look into giving empire infantry some kind of edge as they are the backbone of any empire army, not support troops like their mercenary and orc boys counterparts.
Possibly a increase in IN or/and LD.
Knights have the same stats as Mercenary Cavalry, maybe these 2 cavalries should have LD 8, to stimulate that Knights  in general were better trained and maybe WS 4 and STR 4 isnt enough of an edge.

I will also take a look at Goblin Fanatics maybe we gave them too much of an edge or maybe if we give empire a boost it will even out.

Cholio and Alavet hold on with the battle until the issue is handled.

[Cholio]

Uhm, which battle are you reffering to ? I don't think we are to do any battles atm

[Flak]

yeah sorry i see its done already, nevermind me mate

[Flak]

NEW UPDATE TO UNIT FILES ALL DOWNLOAD

Changes from Version 3.1 to 3.2

Goblins
Goblin fanatics have been increased in cost to 525 and 540

Empire
Halbardiers +1IN, +1LD, +1 Shield
Greatswords +1IN, +1 Shield
Knights +1LD
New Unit, Kemperbad Militia. 170gc, weak infantry.

Orcs
Orc boyz, boars and arrers +2 troops
Biguns +1 troop
Troll gang +1 troop

[alavet]

lets see how it will come...

[Flak]

GM NOTE

as we move into the multi attack/defense battles please all read the rules on army refilling at the button of this rule section.

Post Battle Army Restoration

This order is closely related to the battle order, this is when the player after a battle replaces the loses endured in the battle. Make note here, it is only possible to buy troops back to existing regiments and to ONLY buy back regiments that was in the army originally. No new regiments may be introduced. Also only the Upgrade items may be added to the army again although only if lost in the battle. New items may be fitted, 5 being the max. If an item that the army already has is captured from the enemy then it has to be sold, double items may not be saved. However it is perfectly fine to have more than 5 items as long as only 5 are used.
As a sub category to Army Restore is Army Refill which is what you is done when fighting a double-attack when no regiments may be purchases and only surviving regiments may have their ranks refilled. Only upgrade items may be purchased in an army refill. One exception is for Necromancers and Vampires, due to their high losses of regiments that will not retreat or that dies upon retreat (Skeletons/Wraiths/Wights), it is permitted that they raise the dead enemies into zombie regiments (not wight zombies).

[Cholio]

So now that im doing an attack vs alavet who is double defending, if i win the first battle, i can refill the surviving regiments, and rebuy all regiments that have been killed during the fight correct?