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alavet
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« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2009, 05:43:51 PM »

well i must say that i never used army, which were created DURING tournament. all my tournament armies were created before it (except my last greenskins 5k army for Endurance match, where i didn' saved my 9k goblins army after winning vs Gharby)
as for rule for 1 army per race, even though it's descrbied well, i'll just give my comments:
1) it wasnt forbidden
2) in our last August tourney we used diffirient rule. quote ofllows:
//Restrictions: You are allowed to create as much armies as you want, but you have to use inexperienced armies each fight and you have to use every race three times! In the preliminary round you have to use every race at least one time.//

you might ask me why i need several armies. the point is, that i might use some funky armybuilds against players with less skills (to get more fun), and choose more standard armies vs solid players.
another reason that i usually don't test enough my armybuilds and if i see in the early of tournament that my army suck (like i discovered about my first empire army) i will swap it to another, stronger build.

p.s. also i think we need to post other ruleets (like, lone mage should go cc) in the tourney lobby as well.

and psot your own armies guys!
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« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2009, 11:52:53 PM »

Hi guys.
Well I have to apologize. Sorry I left so early and shamefully.
First of all, I didn't know that I could change my armies during tourney. I thought I come in with 3 «approved» armies and that's it. (by the way, I consider this much more fair).
Second, my armies were a total disaster. (I only played 5000/15, and was not able to switch to FO properly).
And I played like shit. Very confused. I bought Horn of Urgok in both armies (I didn't play undead principally), and never blew in it even once. Just forgot about it, cause there were dozens of regiments everywhere Smiley I was lost.
My format is definetily 5000/15. Quite and comfortable to play tactics.

And I also think that the current way the tournament is organized is a sort of a mess (sorry).
I don't understand why we play 2 games against each other (why not 3?). (of course everybody picks undead first, cause they are tricky and cheaty).
I don't like that we can change armies during the game. It's weird.

May be it's better to bring new ideas in other post or may be not doing it at all, cause you've been playing like this for a long time and got used to it.
But as for me, the best system would be — 3 armies per player. (no changes during the tournament).
A «knock out» system (like in football world championships; no groups at all);
Each pair of players plays an endurance match against each other (all 3 armies involved in such case, and undead in the last place). Loser is knocked out.
The most fair would be if 2 players play 9 games (with each army against each opponent's army).
But this one is toooo long.

The system with knock-out and endurance is long two. But it could be played during a week-end, I'm sure.
I've played today three endurance matches with my friend (5000/15), and didn't spend mush time on it.


2Ghabry Why do you need months to upload videos? Smiley
60 megabytes video takes 10 minutes to download on youtube. Then it's a business of a couple of days.
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alavet
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« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2009, 06:49:14 AM »

Hi Jim,

in my opinion problem with knock out system is that soemtiems u just willn't have any chance to play futher, AND there is not so many players as in footbal. Like in most tourneys we have 8-10-12 players as max and it will be sad if you will play only 1 match and get kicked off. Also afaik at footbal there is diffirient systems, and "groups" pretty much used at world footbal champinship at preliminary stage.

i like 2 battles vs each player in group, thats not too much long, as it should be imo.

as for Endurance system  - i personally dont like it much. Result is pretty much determined by the first match, - if you win, you just selling all artifaacts and try to kill mage/other expensive/easily killable unit. it's not much about tactic/strategy in my opinion, either dont have much sense anyway, cause if skill is aprox. equal. both armies will most possibly almost dead after the battle.
also the fact that u have to play mirror races is not good as well if we're talking about strategy.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 06:57:45 AM by alavet » Logged

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« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2009, 08:48:53 AM »

alavet has pretty much covered this but i would like to add from an planning perspective, kockout stages are near im possible as it needs an exact number of players, 1 too many or too less and it cant work.
Groups are better and easier to change as needed.
We play 2 times because when we use to play once we often had to make rematches because players had the same score, 2 wins 1 loss and then we had 4 rematches sometimes, taking longer than to play twice to begin with.

I agree that endurance games are not suited for a tournaments.

Thank you for you input Jim nice to see that you have considered everything you saw, you didnt have to leave because of a bad army build, its your first attempt at a tournemant Smiley
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« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2009, 04:55:45 PM »

Hi

My format is definetily 5000/15. Quite and comfortable to play tactics.


This ruleset was for testing purpose if it is playable for tournaments, so perhaps we could take 5k/15 in the next tournament. Depends on the feedback/suggestions we will get.

And I also think that the current way the tournament is organized is a sort of a mess (sorry).


This tournament was a special one, organized from Jeronimo, cause he should had the chance to present his ruleset. Next time we'll have Flak, me or another player who organize the tournament and perhaps an other structure (see other tournaments). It isn't that easy to moderate a tournament and it was his first time, so I hope you can be lenient toward to him Smiley

But as for me, the best system would be — 3 armies per player. (no changes during the tournament).
A «knock out» system (like in football world championships; no groups at all);
Each pair of players plays an endurance match against each other (all 3 armies involved in such case, and undead in the last place). Loser is knocked out.
The most fair would be if 2 players play 9 games (with each army against each opponent's army).
But this one is toooo long.


Yep a knock out is an ideal tournament system, but we have always take care, that every player has 3-5 matches before he is out. So we made in the other tournaments always a group system (1:1) the best 2 player reach the finals and make a best of 3 game.

The system with knock-out and endurance is long two. But it could be played during a week-end, I'm sure.


It's very hard to find a weekend where all players can play for two days, that's why we make one day only tournaments.

2Ghabry Why do you need months to upload videos? Smiley


No comment....cause he is lazy like hell.....
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« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2009, 09:28:39 PM »

Please give still your feedback about the ruleset in this topic. To improve it, if there is any need for it...
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« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2009, 07:32:09 PM »

Hey, so what about videos? Wink
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« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2009, 07:55:17 PM »

Hey, so what about videos? Wink

(Hey, so what about the CamStudio Tutorial? Wink)

When it's done. I encoded around 10 other older videos first because they had losless compression and wasted lots of GB.
I will start encoding the tournament videos tomorrow, found a way to save around half the encoding time (have to update the tutorial).

If you want to see a September Tournament video watch this:
Dark Omen - vs. Flak - Road to Bogenhafen - September Tournament (Fair Omen) QualificationLQ | LQ+ | HQ | HQ+ | HD | by Aeva

(Will be deleted later)
Was just a test how it looks like when I just add borders until it reaches the HD resolution Wink.
Use fullscreen view and a resolution of 1280x720 or it will look strange Cheesy.

And I should think about adding the year because we had a 2008 September tournament too
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 08:02:02 PM by Ghabry » Logged

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« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2009, 08:47:58 PM »

Tutorial is done Smiley
Check it out.
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« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2009, 07:38:07 PM »

[Jeronimo] First FO Tourney... what can I say? I found many things to fix. Great TEST.

FO had 34.500gc total gold. Now will have 36.000gc. I already thought in all new prices. +1500 distributed in Regiments.

Items are OK. If anyone has something to say I listen. But considering everything everything all is ok: my doubt was about Celestial sword at 400gc. Same as Infernal, but considering the Dragonhelm at 80 gold... Mmhh.

Also, not written yet. I discovered all Items can be grouped in 6 SETS

Conjurer: Ashur, Wand, Enchanted Shield. 800gc

Fire: Dragonhelm, Infernal, Grudgebringer. 800gc

Lightning: Celestial, Wrath, Osiris. 2400gc

Warrior: Potion, Heart, Ptolos, Runefang. 1200gc (HU only)

Resistance: Mork's Banner, Arcane, Spelleater. 1200gc (GS only)

Panic: Urgok, Skabskrath, Defiance. 3200gc (UD only)

NOTE: Playing with any of these Sets you gain extra gold at end of Battle  Cheesy (I wish that were true)
I thought this could be great to implement in FACTIONS or CAMPAIGNS. Imagine all the uses you can give to Sets.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 08:13:10 PM by lordbraprus » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2009, 07:48:03 PM »

[Jeronimo]

Continue this list of changes... I had a problem with Nitrox: Wizard's Bug (vamp this case). I will write about what to do in such a case.

Also, i didnt feel well at winning a battle with Hit & Run. My shamans goblin + Orc boar boyz vs. Flagellants.
I could be running with boar, and that way kill flag slowly. I heard "others persons like" also could win some battles using my rule.
Taking everything into account i will change HIT & WALK to something never seen, never thought!

Another thing. Session Lost. Never wrote about it: options to take.

Endurances didnt like?? Well, everyhitng can be re edited. Thats why my Test Ruleset was played. If Endurances didnt like to players (considering Tournaments at least) I will change that part.
All Tourney will be played using the TD (tourn. duels)---several DB against a same player.

Did I mention a change to Map List? Yes previous posts. 3 maps changed.

SUPER NOTE: I will upload the "after experience" FO Ruleset. but expect it at 12 October (day of race). I will return home, and write everything in that long weekend. Meanwhile I ll be studying here  Cheesy

« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 08:11:13 PM by lordbraprus » Logged

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« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2009, 08:18:11 PM »

well, at this current FO ruleset i dont like following:

UD awesomly overpowered. mummies +antimagic will crush everything.
or you can use 4BGK agaisnt 90% of Human or ANY Greenskin army and win.

hovewer Humans also pretty good, but weaker than good UD.
but cant say anything about greenskins. i personally think that even at 9/30 rileset greenskins are nothing but trash. and in YOUR ruleset, wehre you lwoered lot of prices, greenskins performs even worse. they could  do better if thre were possible to stand 10 regiment at once, but now its pffff.

also as i said i feel bad about using it on 7k rmies and above without restictions. every1 wil ltake lvl3 mage no matter what (except some crazy armybuilds).

and allowing mass units, like mass flagellants, is very bad. its very powerfulll combo which might kill thouthands of combinatins, esp. with antimagic on them. so it will get boring soon (unless u want handicap and play with worse army). changing cost not an option, since they're priced good by now.

also making bgk for 2,4 is a big mistake. yes they're  good, but not really that much. he cost 1,9k i agree but 2,4 is a pffff. last time we played with Flak andi killed full regiment of grails with 1 regiment of flagellants and 1 treeman and lost like 3-4 flgellants

what about we will implement max of 3 units rule? or soem of elite/core/unique/ units from Mika ruleset project?
even though it doesnt solves mummies problem mch..

also, why terror for ogres? i dont know echanics of DO much, but isnt it liek the same as a grail skill?  if so its dramatically bad. if not, why not limiting it on just "causing fear"? i dont think ogres really can be that "scary" to alllow them "terror". basically terror rule in tbale game used for really scary and mighty creatures  (mostly UD i guess)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 08:24:55 PM by alavet » Logged

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« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2009, 09:10:13 PM »

[Jeronimo] Alavet. I read. Now your turn.

As i said. +1500gc will be distributed. mainly for HU. I saw nobody choose Mercenary Infantry or Greatswords... also a different distance between mages will be assigned.

BGK: i know they dont worth that much. 2400gc-3600-4800 its crazy!. Thats why they will be only reg with Special Exp system. Instead of +50%, will be +25%.

Lets compare! BGK
T(tourney) FO: 1800-2700-3600
C(coming) FO: 2400-3000-3600

Sounds like a nice trap.. max 3 BGK in 9k. You will want to have the 3600gc instead of 2 basic of 2400gc.

Lets say.. if 3 is max: How do u see now GS? One having banner of Defiance, not forget BOOST or FISTS spells, yeah, some waaagh magic. and horn of urgok truely needed. Same cost as 1 bgk is cool. Artillery, fanatics, etc.

Now isnt 4 BGK with items. we are talking of perhaps 3.. (with anti-magic?) You need Horn of urgok primary, I think GS always will be able to carry since they are cheap.               -1 BGK is much difference.

lvl3 mage... Hehe , HIT & WALK will take part from a different condition. not more wiz is last unit.. now from earlier also protecting few reg armies.
I think the lvl3 mage is something very common in this game. But from my 2 games against Gabriel, where he did the Hit & Run to assure victory (first with vamp, and then with bright wiz), I rethought in the Rule.

Flag will be +120 expensive. 840gc. level 2. = 840 Mercenary Infantry level 4. I revised numbers and found out not very well priced as you say. Having Flag in army should be equal to having some level 4 infantry (like my suggestion).
Flag+ antimagic: theyre true weakness are arrows/proyectils.

Ogres Terror: YES, they are few units, not 20 like Ghouls. Many units cause fear, few cause terror, thats the truth.
Wraiths, Ogres and unique units cause terror. From Mummies/Wigths (strong guys) on forward, Reg just cause fear.

Aclaration: the Big Big problem with BGK is the Leadership Check. I also thoguht in removing it. But if we keep the 2400-3000-3600, i see no problem. THAT Ability is like constant Demonic Wave from UD sword, everytime they hit.
Ogres is different. Causing Terror is worse than Leadership Check. Consider them as TRIPLE TROLL without shields/speciality.

Mummy+anti magic: You can always edit a Super Regiment, very strong, 1 or 2 Items. I personally consider Mummies not so cool because theyre slowness. and withouht Defiance... heheh i want to see you. Shoots.

I will see Mika Armybuild, however, sounds like you are ALWAYS going to have 3 flagelants Alavet. I think at 840gc you may think if massing them.. Flag counter combinations? Will counter arrows/cannons/mortar?
Lets recognize Flail weapon is very powerful, however they dont have armor, only 9 guys and 1 wound.
I doubt you will make 1 super Flag with 1680gc, u prefer 2 basic of course. You have to choose what to give them with their only slot: perhaps a sword, a magic shield, a banner... what Alav Cool?

REAL EXAMPLE: my 24/24 dwarves killed 9/9 flag once, both Basic. Flag are cool, but cant handle against many numbers.
Perhaps at first, agaisnt GS, they will make other gobl, orcs retreat due to impact of Flails at first, but then they regroup, its Ouch Time, like you wrote in a post.

The Favourite (bad priced) Regiments of Tournament like Ogres, Flag, BGK, etc are more expensive.
Note: Ogres +60. Now at 690 gold, nice number since can be combined with 810 gold. +Armor they cost 720gc.
BGK: +600 (new exp scale +25% considering their high cost)
Flag: +120 (to have some similarity with other Infantry REG, like the question ORcs or Goblins Infatry??) NOw is like Flag, or lvl 4 20/20 3 slots- mercenary soldiers)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 09:18:16 PM by lordbraprus » Logged

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Jeronimo
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« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2009, 02:47:10 AM »

I read your commentary Flak (in video). Tell it in my face next time, like Alavet.

And very nice Ghabry showing massacre results.

I wander if you guys understand why I needed a 9k Tournament (and the posted videos).

And now what? Is all over? or is just the Beggining? I will improve the Mod. All were "theoric prices".
Seeing what happened to GS is a proof that still isnt FO.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 02:57:50 AM by Jeronimo » Logged
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« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2009, 12:29:52 AM »

I'm nearly finished with encoding the youtube version of the qualification. (The normal resolution versions are already finished but as you know I create two versions for better youtube-res)
Only one video is missing. I planned to finish it this night but I'm too tired, sorry. So you will get the qualification videos friday night and the other 6 videos (semi, final) saturday night or in worst case sunday night Wink.
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