[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

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Tournament April 2010

[Wkurwiony]

ok here is some of the games from yesterday

24-4-2010 DOE vs alavet	LQ | LQ+ | HQ | HQ+ | by Aeva

24-4-2010 DOE vs jeronimo	LQ | LQ+ | HQ | HQ+ | by Aeva

24-4-2010 DOE vs olor	LQ | LQ+ | HQ | HQ+ | by Aeva

24-4-2010 DOE vs olly	LQ | by Aeva

[Darkmancer]

nice games aside from a bit of accidental cheating from Jeronimo

[Jeronimo]

I sign in again for 1st May.

Yes Darkma, I thought we could afford for max 1 of each hero (bold letters).

Then Wkur told me is 1 of "bold letters" as max: max 1 hero per army.

Comentary: This way I'll always prefer to pick up a Mage instead of a Leader (L banner), and you?

[Darkmancer]

Depends on the race.

[lordbraprus]

hi people, listen i have seen the videos, the pics, and my brother battles when i was at his side while he was playing.

after that and before the battles, knowing the things behind the sprites, and then reading some comments as olly ones and darkmancer, and others that will come later, i have reached to the conclusion that here there are several problems, maybe just problems... but things are not ALL-Right.

i will start slowly, like a introduction of the state of things..

Grend, our dear grend did a good job, with a lot of effort in making the sprites, that is a fact.
At first, months ago i just thougt taht his objective was just make the sprites and then someone assing the sprites the atributtes that they (the sprites) should have.. but grend have the idea and it is just fine, but he decided to make all the atributes and balance things, cool a hard worked, but as he was making the differents versions of his DOE i realiced that he was not " making sprites of all races, so then can play with all them in dark omen"; oh no, he just was making his own mod, with his own rules, with his balance and even atributes..

while he was doing that, users of this forum ,even me congraturated him for the sprites job, because yes is a nicve job, but then the users keeped congraturations him even when he uploaded the mod so the players could tested it, and well there are some videos about battles testing the mod, and the comments? "good job, good mod" , but why? why always saying that when you had the files 2parm where you have the atributtes? well easy, you never oppened the file and take a look of what are you using, you just post an opinion or coment based on the sprites and the battles actions movements like "wow! that dark elf ballista almost killed my mage" so you with the emotion, of having exiting battles with new sprites, post that the mod is very cool.

me, my brother and , i dont know how much  did he investigateds, but alavet too,  posted that grend should make some changes for the game balance; anyway the day of tourny reached and the mod with all the errors that it have, and you olly darkmancer and others doesnt know, was the choosen to be played.

the tourny finish and then olly posted some images , ok good but,there is again what happen with sprites/atributes, you only see the image/sprite but dont know the story/atributte behind. and well then the videos. Now, my point is this.

grend mod have this (and more) not well ubicated things:

first, units like imperial longswords, ogres, some orc unit have inmune to fear (that is not OK)
then, a important unit, the wraiths, some ppl say they are hard to kill, and others that not, well here in DOE there is a 12/12 wraiths unit, waw they are alot you say, well they are, and they have UNBREAKABLE(wrong), skeleton flag (super wrong), and as you know, they only can be killed by magic swords, and atributtes?, they are an invent of grend mind when he is dreaming, they have 1 wound 10 leadership 10??... 2 strengh 2 initiative.. that atributtes are so far from wraiths as the spirit host real atributes, when the have 4 leadership, 4 wounds 3 strenght 1 initiative...

so there you have a really clear example of just one unit, imagine, no, dont imagine, just look with w32edit the units atributtes, there are others thigs like the steam tank 6 movement? an arcaic invent made of heavy materials move faster than a horse?.. ah dont forget, it have inmune to fear, and cause fear and terror??? and never retreat, when just, in simple way, it CANT ENTER IN COMBAT it just can pass over the enemies and crush them.

black knight have +2 leardiship than originals
dire wolfs, have 6 leadirship, when original have 3

in orcs there are thing like , the goblin bolt thrower ignore retreat button/never retreat, but he orc lobber can retreat?
zavage orcs 2 attaks, when they have only 1, and they have always pursue (wrong, like all thing i am mentionating) .

so here i touch the always pursue atribute that grend have implemented in many units that should not have it.
what is the point to put that atributte, to infantery units like savages orcs and flagelants units taht like all exept heroes, cant take items to help them to protect from magic or impacts (ptolos) while they are pursuing the routting enemy units, if flagelants pursue a faster units, they will be masacred with magic and arrows or cannon whatever..

now only heroes can take items , well , and you just can have 1 or 2 heroes, how can a player defeat a vampire count armie with 1 heroe, if the vampire count have 1 or 2 12/12 spirits host?, making obligation to buy a sword to have a unit that can be able to kill them, so the others items are just painted in the books and you say "ahh beatifull drawing" because yo never will buy a stregh potion, the heart of woe, the arcan banner, you just will buy a sword, or like i told you in the beggining of all this, the pic where olly shows his orc boar leader with the defiance banner "fighting" against spirits host, he would never have a chance to win the batlle from the beggining cause he has no sword, just a brave orc that will never rout, and never kill a spirit  host, not even making them rout, because they are unbreakable,..

well iam tired of writting, there are LOTS of atributtes grend-style, around Dark Omen Expanded, so are playing a dark omen expanded version, original + expanded units? answer NOT , are we at least playing a warhammer game in other edition? answer NOT, so ok, in my opinion we are playing a game that grend invented, with dark omen engine, in that way it should not be called Dark Omen expanded, just,, Grend first game or what he wants.

I want to remind you all, that i dont do this just to trough shit on grend, i say this to open your  eyes and stop spaming "good job" just beause you see beatifull sprites.

bye, love you all.

dark mancer, please if you will tell me to grow up again, you should....

[lordbraprus]

this is to make you a really honest group that work all togheter to make a good game, balance sprites, everething , not just say the "good work" and wash hands.

[olly]

Testing any mod in a Tournament is designed to produce constructive views and comments like your own.You would make ideal and welcomed testers,considering how we all appreciate the many areas the mod covers- Sprites,banners,portraits,stats etc.. - A Massive Project and Very Good Job!

Extending the Home Page Troops Area with a separate section for the DOE Mod Races and units would also be good for learning stats and banners perhaps in the future. http://en.dark-omen.org/troops.html  . It all depends on the time fans have and lately i unfortunately don't have much to highlight issues but I do prioritise crashes over balance.Hence my brief post at the time- "Good testing as well (my Orcs didnt crash at all and neither did my Vamp Counts or Wood Elves but I think my Dark Elves (necro) crashed when charging perhaps" - Sorcerer

I agree that Combined as a Testing Team this Mod will evolve even further and better but I did also play some good Fair and balanced Battles. It's Early days so the more its played and tested the more it will enhance but so far its amazing progress and a Dream Come True to play other Races that "simply" requires balancing over time, like the original still needs.

Having Beta tested all the various stages of DOE and participating in its Mini and Official Tournaments is hardly washing hands of it or being Blinded by the excellent new sprites. So Don't concern yourself about posts that praise the overall success of the Project. I'm Glad you've decided to assist and share your Balance knowledge and opinions, the more the merrier!

[Darkmancer]

anyway the day of tourny reached and the mod with all the errors that it have, and you olly darkmancer and others doesnt know, was the choosen to be played.

Olly, Darkmancer, and I suspect many others do know that there are severals errors, we (hopefully) got rid of all the crash errors, there's nothing particully game breaking about the mistakes currently in, we’ve chated to grend and I messaged him about some of the mistakes, mistakes he will correct when he gets time.

first, units like imperial longswords, ogres, some orc unit have inmune to fear (that is not OK)

Nobody died and made you king of Warhammer, DOE is not your mod, you have no right to say what is and is not OK, feel free to make constructive suggestions or point out mistakes.

then, a important unit, the wraiths, some ppl say they are hard to kill, and others that not, well here in DOE there is a 12/12 wraiths unit, waw they are alot you say, well they are, and they have UNBREAKABLE(wrong), skeleton flag (super wrong), and as you know, they only can be killed by magic swords, and atributtes?, they are an invent of grend mind when he is dreaming, they have 1 wound 10 leadership 10??... 2 strengh 2 initiative.. that atributtes are so far from wraiths as the spirit host real atributes, when the have 4 leadership, 4 wounds 3 strenght 1 initiative...

The skeleton flag makes them killable in melee by any weapons via combat resolution, if the spirt host was implemented like the tabletop game it would be seriously game breaking with 4 attacks, and with the general lack of item use in DOE(which is quite pleasant actually), i'm a bit dubious of the new stats but need a few games before I comment.

The steamtank no longer has the steam tank rules in combat and so can be engaged in H2H, play some games as empire before you declare it to fast/powerful etc.
Bloodthirst can be an advantage (by chasing units of the map) but tends to be a disadvantage.  Lets take Orc boyz vs savage orcs – both the same price however the boyz have more armour and are more controllable, where as the savage orcs get 2 attacks and are less controllable, which is fairly appropriate.

If you’ve got a unit with bloodthirst, don’t charge it on it’s own, and try to avoid going after crap units with it, or it’s your own stupid fault if you lose it, like wise if your opponent has bloodthirsty units you may be able to take advantage of it, and OMG tactics in Dark Omen, never!
Dark Omen is never going to be a perfect recreation of the tabletop game, both being real-time and with the limitations of Dark Omen itself, from hovering around some of the WH forums, there’s plenty of complaining about imbalances in the tabletop game.

Yes there are mistakes in DOE that doesn’t mean it’s not fun to play, I enjoyed playing the mini-tournament more than all the other ones I participated in.

I don’t think you intentionally being offensive to Grend and the general community, but I think you are being.   

[alavet]

i actualy think lorbrapus post is absolutely nto offensive and actualy suprisingly open minded. good job for sprites Grend AND good job for balancing, but you cant make balance in 2 attempts, you need to polish it in dozens of changes, always. so nothign wrong if its not super balanced now imo, and its already a good mod by its own.

hovewer i dont compeltely i agree with his changes, as i also see some medium leaks at the current balance, even i only tested  4 races (and played vs 5). i'm going to put balance discussion to other other thread though.

[Wkurwiony]

I like this mod because its fresh and fun to play even with some units being too powerful or too weak for their price.

1. i like bloodthirst, and i dont think it should be considered as advantage for a unit. its nothing player couldnt do by himself but it adds more thinking about using such regiments

2. yes only some heroes can carry a magic items, i dont have problem with that as grend gave some units items as "special abilities" so it wouldnt be right for some regiment to pick such item

3. i like how wraiths works in vanilla. in DOE i only had one game against them so still cant say much about them

4. having "max 3 units" rule would be nice, no single unit armies

5. about tournaments i think player should play 3 diffrent races and not 3 diffrent races from each slot (human, greenskin, undead)

6. sing me in for 1st may ;]

7. "warning unreal" - having a 3rd party program to create armies, that would show stats of units. i dont have problem with alt+tabbing to check what each unit is good for but as we know people are lazy, and for new players that might be too much

[Nitrox]

In warhammer tabletop steam tank can get into hth \o/.

[Rust]

Please sign me on the 1st of may.

[Leebowyer]

Hi, i'm newbie here. Sign me on 1st may.
And just to be sure - for this tournament i need to download and install DOE on original Darkomen, right?

[bembelimen]

7. "warning unreal" - having a 3rd party program to create armies, that would show stats of units. i dont have problem with alt+tabbing to check what each unit is good for but as we know people are lazy, and for new players that might be too much

Should be possible with wh32edit, if you write a new xml file. Ask Ghabry for it.

[Ghabry]

7. "warning unreal" - having a 3rd party program to create armies, that would show stats of units. i dont have problem with alt+tabbing to check what each unit is good for but as we know people are lazy, and for new players that might be too much

Should be possible with wh32edit, if you write a new xml file. Ask Ghabry for it.

Hm no. Wh32Edit is not suitable for buying armies. Because it doesn't reduce Gold Coins e.g.