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Jim's OpenTournament (based on Darkmancer's mini tournament ruleset)

[Jim]

PS using you best unit to melee him wasnt the best tactical move was it :p

Hey-hey-hey, it was my best move. I was 90% sure Orc would flee and I would get a free shaman kill. Even if he didn't flee, I would quickly kill him in melee.
I didnt expect that: he would not flee AND he would have fists. That was too unprobable. But it happened.

Actually I think the version 1.0 was perfect expept one army — The Defenders of the realm.
Now that it's powered by tank it's cool and fun to play.
But orcs...
You overpowered Grashaks, that's definetely and obvious to everyone.
And may be Gutrippas. I like gutrippas like they were. No ogres, two ballistas...

[hari8]

Hm, now it's getting to an end (8-7 for me atm), but now we can't fight anymore...

[Jim]

New videos
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[Darkmancer]

Fine i'll knock down the GS mages down to lvl 1 but dont complain that they are now crap :p

GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,

Quote "Actually I think the version 1.0 was perfect expept one army — The Defenders of the realm."

well you didn't, reread this thread:
http://forum.dark-omen.org/empty-t1072.0.html;msg10930#new
where you discuss some of the problems.  Other people had problems too, as lack of fear immune and general GS crappyness.

New greenskin side are likely to be:
Gnashrak's Boyz
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Night Goblins + fanatics
Night Goblin Archers + fanatics  (might do 2 armies like i did with gut rippas)
Orc Arrer Boys Night Goblins
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

Waaagh! Urgat
Gigantic Spider -  immune to fear Night Goblins
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Big’uns + immune to fear
Orc Rock Lobber
+Troll -  immune to fear
+Troll -  immune to fear


The Gutrippas
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins* (either the warriors or the archers will have fanatics see note)
Night Goblin Shamen + lvl2
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Bolt Thrower + 1 B/S
Orc rock Lobber
Ogres - Fear Immune

I'm not bringing back dual balistas due to the same problems as the cannon - map balance.

I'm not happy with company of woe either.  I can't think of simple unit swap i like, i was wondering about swapping 2 units for wraiths (yes they are perfectly beatable without magic before the rage sets in)

Finally was wondering about warriors of sigmar, maybe lose the +1 b/s's and give them a low powered unit like merc swordsmen.

[Jim]

GS mages were lvl 2

I know thaaaat
But lvl2 mage in an army with 7 regimetns is totally different from lvl2 mage in the army with 5 regiments.

And I don't get the changes to "Gutrippas"...
We have to leave the Bolt Thrower!
It's my favourite unit.
It's absolutely useless, but it's so much fun!
I love it sisnce it saved me epic game against Deadman and killed Volodimir:) That's why «The Gutrippas» is my favourite army. But you're trying to make it boring.

So removing useless unit doesn't make a lot of difference.
To balance it you just need to remove Ogres. And replace them with something,

The changes to "Urgat" and "Boyz" are pretty fair.

[Darkmancer]

The gutrippas Need a fear immune unit so choice of troll scorpian/spider big uns or orgres.  And the Big uns are disqualified as they are already used twice.  Not really a choice at all really is it? :p  I like the Ogres the are an unusual unit.

I'll knock down the mage to lvl 1

The balista i'll put up to a vote:
2 Balista b/s skill 4, lose 1 gobo regiment
1 Balista b/s skill 3
No Balista

[Jim]

What's "b/s"?

[Darkmancer]

Balistic skill it has a large affect on rate of fire and accuracy. 

For comparison skele catapult b/s 2, orc lobber b/s 3 (thats why orc lobber i so much better and skele is awful).

Most bowmen b/s 3, elven archers b/s 4.

Balistic skill has no affect on range.

[Jim]

I vote for "2 Balista b/s skill 4, lose 1 gobo regiment"
Two ballistas twice more fun!

[Deadman]

Ballistas are useless. And why the hell you knocked down GS mage to lvl1? Make him lvl3 instead and get all ballistas fock out of the Guttreapaz. And don't listen old Jim. He's a psycho that simply hates all magical aspect of the game. Also make vampire lvl3 throwin' out some regiment. Bring us more magic mayhem!
The balance of armies is fine. There is no need to bring changes in it because of nonsense claims of crying pussies. Be a men! All these snots about disbalance is a focking bullshit. Let's not transform the tournament into an asian bazaar. Someone likes artillery while the others like magic. Let's just play, no more cry.

[kilowic]

 

[hari8]

Hm... maybe we just should watch which army wins how many times and furthermore look on results.
Look at Jim vs me atm: 7-8 -> seems like good balancing^^

My opinion to Gutrippas:
Ogres are strong, but I think it's ok to keep them. Maybe replace Orc Boyz with Goblin Warriors...

[Jim]

Jeronimo has been removed from the tournament  
All scores updated.

After the update I appeared to be in the lead 

[Jim]

@Deadman, first of all, you were whining about overpowered Gutrippas and Grashaks to me yesterday as well. So you're not only a pussy, but you're also acting like a dork right now.

Second. If you want magic so badly — go ahead, make your own ruleset full of magic crap, full of magic items (all of them if you'd like), and add each army two, or even better, three lvl4 mages. That would be so great! And then try to convince abybody to play with you.
I think I would even play such a tournament. Just to witness this biggest idiotism in the history of Warhammer.

I think I've made myself thousands of times clear why I think that there shouldn't be magical overabundance.
Cause I want the games' result to depend on opponents' tactical skills. I don't want games to depend on pure luck, fortune, chances and all this crap. If you gain your victory only thanking to fists and magic winds which bring you enough mana — then you even can't be proud of such a win. Cause you didn't actually deserve it.
That's it.

And I do like mages, and I can play them. But for me lvl2 is maximum. I would even prefer lvl1. It's enough for fun, and not to much for making the absolut difference.

[Jim]

@Darkmancer, I would like to give my apologies for being sort of rude yesterday.
It was not right blaming you for the disbalance, because the ruleset and the revision of it before the start this is all our collective responsibility.
Those were emotions, sorry.