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Author Topic: Jim's OpenTournament (based on Darkmancer's mini tournament ruleset)  (Read 43560 times)
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #60 on: December 25, 2011, 04:02:45 AM »

I've given Jim a list of maps which arn't biased so hopefully he'll update his program Smiley

Also had a tinker and managed to get the tutorial map back in the ingame list (easy fix).  After the tournament im going to combine map patches and remove the worst/crashing maps.

What are in your opinion the worst/crashing maps? Great you could recover Tutorial, IMO important for 3k/5k battles.

I have detailed the reasons why I left the OpenTournament in a private to Jim...

I agree "Bot Dice!<1.02>" needs a revision. The List is outdated.
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #61 on: December 25, 2011, 04:52:10 AM »

TBH it's quite a while ago i went thou the list with olly and it was a rough thing, but added a few new ones since (the sideways return to axebite everyone i talked to hated it Smiley

Here's the list of left in maps, axebite pass is an odd map but it makes a change sometimes.

Border Counties
Grissburg town
The road to Bogenhafen
Random 2
Axebite pass
The Empire
Great Forest at Night
Great Forest
Great Forest mod
Random 1
Sylvania
Drakenhof Castle
Forest before Kislev
Goblin Camp
Random 5
Troll-Land
Troll-Land (Hills)
The Northern wastes
Basin of Frozen Blood
Random 9
Return to Axebite pass
The Bretonnian river
Vingtienne
Loren Forest - Holy Shrine
Random 6
Loren Lake
Loren Lake (Balanced)
Loren Forest - Clearing
Random 4
The road to Moussillon
Random 7
Town of the Dead - Moussillion
The Black Pyramide (Sideways)
Tutorial

Ideally we could do with some maps bringing back, but they need revision.
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #62 on: December 25, 2011, 06:08:04 AM »

I like Random 8, because gives a different perspective for battle. You cannot see enemy deployment, plus choose where to head your main attack, while archers shoot across the rock.

You should remove those who dont add anything important or different with another version.
For instance, original "Loren Lake". We already have one called "Loren Lake (Balanced)".

The only difference between both, is that the "Balanced" has One player's deployment limits extended.
Still remains imbalanced to me Smiley, but is better than the original Loren Lake.

Please, reincorpore Random 8. Eliminate those Map Copies but which dont apport any innovation.

First nominations to eliminate:
1) Loren Lake (original) -> balanced version has similar deployments, being slightly better.
2) Random 1 (which is Great Forest Mod) -> basically 2 same maps, 1 slot wasted.


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Jim
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« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2011, 07:20:49 PM »

1 of which was spending 15mins waiting for spell point for teleport in and fire bolts at his catapult, until convieniently i recieved a massive lag spike when i teleported in hmm, turns out fraps starts a new recording at every 4gb which effects the record ie me but not the other player while i'm not hosting.

So that's the punishment you get when you break the "don't be a dick rule"  Grin

I would recommend CamStudio + xVid codec. Evern the raw source video it makes weights about 100-200 mb.
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Jim
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« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2011, 05:05:40 PM »

Darkmancer, now you have to explain me why the f*ck you decided to give an already the largest army of Gnashrak's Boyz (which already had 8 regimetns, EIGHT f*cking regiments with fanatics and all kinds of shit) a mage with Level 2!
Mage with Level 2! Seriously?
I just faced that army which despite all its HUGE number advantage had a Shaman with Fists.
You know what that means?
A complete massacre. Without. Any. F*cking. Chances.
Actually one shaman with fists could've destroyed my entire army alone...

That's no good, man, no good.
DO is supposed to be balanced, games are supposed to have some intrigue.

Gnashrak's Boyz needs Goblin shaman lvl1. Not Orc lvl2.
But anyway it has so many cannon fodder that it can do ok without any mages at all.
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« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2011, 05:15:55 PM »

If I'm not mistakeт most of the games Jeronimo won was made by Grashak's Boyz as well. And Hari8 was really in bad mood about it.
So that's already an ugly regularity that one player gets this army and has a terrible kill-streak.

This army is really not from this league. And I just don't get your logic, when you were creating it.
When I played against it I always thought it had lvl1 mage. But lvl2... That's just too much...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 05:38:57 PM by Jim » Logged

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Darkmancer
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« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2011, 08:54:36 PM »

Lets see where to start.

This is only the second time this ruleset has been played, I get little feed back (whineing between yourselves not especially helpful to me, i've many skills but im not telepathic), and what feedback I get tends to be hyper nerd rage, not objective thinking on the merits of balance.

It takes multiple plays to work out balance but I've already relised some side are a bit weak/stongbut I can't exactly change the stats as we go.  Now in the orignal Gnashshaks was underpowered and easily beat (as was GS in general).

Orginal Gnash:
Gnashrak's Boyz
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Orc Arrer Boys
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

New Gnash
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Night Goblins + fanatics
Night Goblin Archers + fanatics

Orc Arrer Boys
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

Balance
1) Why lvl 2 mage?
Because most greenskin spells are mediocre/poor including an anti-magic spell, (plus no teleport Smiley, with the exception of fists, however fists is a 3 point spell, requires melee with your mage, plus due to bugs quite often misses, so it's not exactly dependable.

2)Why 2 Goblins with fanatics.  The side was weak and didnt have a lobber forcing it to be a close combat side.  Generally GS sides tend to be weaker bolstered by larger quantities of weak troops.  Why fanatics?  Fun, they always add something, and often smash though you own side as much as the enemies.  In this tournament they seem to be beheaving, plus people seem to have forgotten how dangourous they are, a little re-education doesnt go amiss Smiley

This side is going to be nerfed, probobly by orc sharmen -> goblin shamen, and either a unit removale or unit downgrade not decided which yet.


Some of the other sides will be getting tweeks as well.
You want perfect balance use 1 army, and you'll still fail due to map/dice roll.
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« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2011, 09:09:49 PM »


1) Why lvl 2 mage?
Because most greenskin spells are mediocre/poor including an anti-magic spell, (plus no teleport Smiley, with the exception of fists, however fists is a 3 point spell, requires melee with your mage, plus due to bugs quite often misses, so it's not exactly dependable.

Funny thing, Fists were used twice today against me with Grashalks, and it worked like a charm Smiley
About teleport, well you know, I'm a big antagonist of teleport. I'm convinced that it should be, if it's technically possible, REMOVED from any ruleset, any mage, any race.
Cause when you have this spell it's like ...well you have a "play like a dick" spell, which you can use, and be a total dick, or which you can avoid, but then what's the sence of it?".
And we all have a dark side in us, so everyone would violate the teleport.
Especially it's funny when you have one mage left. Your opponent may have 10 regiments, but you still can force a draw, by teleporting for eternity. Why not? Why should we apply more rules like "dont teleport if mage is the only left".. I'd better get rid of the ennoying teleport magic. Or make it cost like 6 manas, or even more.
And even during a game — a mage that teleports to kill his opponent in the back?! No-no... that's not how noble knights fight. But dicks would do that.


What I would recommend:
1) Swap Orc Shaman with Goblin lvl1.
2) Remove Goblin Archers with fanatics, but add those fanatics to other Goblin troppers regiment.
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kilowic
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« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2011, 09:14:43 PM »

I agree that teleport should be removed. Or higher "price".
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Jim
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« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2011, 09:31:04 PM »

Ok, I faced Fists again.
My full BG regiment attacked Orc shaman from behind, he used fists, and the ENTIRE regiment was gone. Just gone.

Darkmancer, you're still saying that "plus due to bugs quite often misses, so it's not exactly dependable."
Are you kidding me?!
I won't even say a word about a mage that doesn't flee after being attacked by BG from behind...
Undefeatable army. Almost.
You can defeat this "Boyz" only on pure luck.

This level2 and fists in every game just takes your last hopes away.

Not cool..

And it's my fault.
As a tournament creator I should've played with every army before starting, and I should have made my personal revision of the ruleset.
I played a match with Deadman using version1.0 of ruleset, and there wasn't any overpowered armies. Good balance.

I should've noticed that you accidentally added TWO regiments of Goblins with fanatics, and it made it unbearable.
But that just fell from my eyes.
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hari8
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« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2011, 09:34:06 PM »

Kilo, just wait until u can beat everything with these Greenskins^^

They definetly are overpowered. Maybe nerf Shaman and take one gob-archer regiment away (i don't now which one would be better...)
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hari8
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« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2011, 09:50:21 PM »

Fists again. But his ogres were too strong (why!?) and i lost because he could block fists with strenghening his ogres Wink
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Jim
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« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2011, 09:53:49 PM »

Nooo, that was not strength mate! Smiley
Your fists would kill anyone with any possible strengh.
It was an anti-magic shield spell. The only thing that could really resist fists effectivelly, as it appears to be.
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hari8
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« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2011, 09:54:56 PM »

That's what i mean, don't now the name Tongue

Edit: Ere we go it's called^^
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2011, 10:20:28 PM »

It's called mork save uz.

Yes fists miss you can see it missing on one of the videos i posted actually.  In Black Proph where its a given spell, i've seen it miss lots of times.  Having said that it is best spell in game Smiley

It should be random wether he even gets the spell or not, has anybody not got the fists spell in jim tournament?

Hows it my fault he didnt flee?  He pass 2 dice rolls like any other unit would have to do in that situation, hard cheese.   PS using you best unit to melee him wasnt the best tactical move was it :p

There was plenty of imbalances in version 1, you even complained about them :p, actually he was already lvl 2 in the orignal so :p
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[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
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