[Warhammer Dark Omen Forum]

Warhammer Dark Omen Forum | Warhammer Dark Omen | Multiplayer | Rules and Standards
FACTIONS

[WarpGhost]

Minor background point but Ptolos is actually a very fluffy item for the Wood Elves, as the 6th edition Wood Elf interim list was the last time that magic item appeared in TT Warhammer. But Staff/Banner arent any more fluffy for them and indeed, as pointed out, downright bad ideas because they are so powerful in an already powerful list.

[ZzUu]

Night Goblin Archers	Night Goblin Archers	Night Goblin Archers	Gigantic Spider	Gigantic Spider	Gigantic Spider	Giant Scorpion	Giant Scorpion	Giant Scorpion	Night Goblin Shaman

I pwned some elves twice or thrice with this army... I think too many beasts are allowed for goblins - they are cheap and its possible to field plenty of them.

[DjLeBomb]

  HAHA lol this all brainstorming it's too much for me (and with all i mean all the topics and posts on the forum lol), let's see what i can answer here...

-To Alavet: As i wrote on the Main Idea of the ruleset it's my belief that with less units to choose from u have to improve your tactics on the build of your army and on the battlefield. Another factor that goes in this way is the one you mention, since your opponent (as you) have a limited amount of units to choose from, u can elaborate a better strategy that the one we made when we try to deal with all the units of a race, but (again) since u also have this "advantage", is on the battlefield that the two supposed perfect armys will clash, and then only the real tactics will gave you the victory.

 Also, the ruleset was very inspired on the Tabletop rules, and there, all the Armys have a limited number of units, limited more by some rules like the ones that Mika was putting on the 9000/30 http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/Rules/9000/30, and yes usually some core units will be present in most of the Factions, but you don't have 3 Factions, u have 7, so the diversity is assured, and of course, the examples that you give are not the only ones that u can make and use.

 I understand that u don't like the rules and get boring with them, but i also understand that u have put aside your tastes and beliefs and have started to work in a "refined" version called Nations, so i think that all the problem is almost resolved, with the speed, manpower and passion that you put to your posts i think that those rules are going to be ready in a week, so we all look forward to it, i'm proud that at least these rules they served you, as a base of course...and i appreciate your intention.


-To Ghabry: All the post is great, and i really appreciate all the testings, but, i don't understand the meaning of these sentence:

As a conclusion I would say that some Races are just too strong.

 

 The possible reasons that i can imagine by now are 2:

- 1: You have past the line on the "Restrictions" when it said "Both Players creates a 3000 army"

If that the case then i repeat: I have rack my brains out to make a 3000 points rule!! it's not a 5000/7000/9000 ruleset! as u can imagine take this to that amount of points it's going to be another quest, u have this battle as a proof and also the example of the 5000/15 post where , after some months, still they discuss about the right points to the Skeletons  !

- 2: Since it's hard to me to believe that both of u have past that restriction, i must understand that u get so exciting with the ruleset that u have go far and tested them for 5000 and for a "Survival Mode" or something like that. So if that's the case, it's just great! but i must return to the point 1: these ruleset it's not tested for more than 5000 points. So damn yes, that armys are way too strong, but; 4 items in one army? Staff of Osiris on the Alliance?! Black Grail with all that back up?!! Yep, these are not Factions armys.

 And about the Survival, Flak have told me to make something like that with the Factions, and i obviously said yes!...but thats all! i have no idea how the ruleset will react to an endurance run, and for what we have sought with these tests seems that not too good  , but i think that is the same with the 3000, the 5000 or with no rule, so that's also why i want to participate in the Survival tourny, to find out how to make this kind of game work, because it will be great.

 The point of the Ptolos and BoW on the Alliance is this: Threat this Faction almost like the High Elf Army on the tabletop version; it's a powerful army, but very, very expensive. Have u noticed that any unit costs lower than 525 gold coins? i ahve to give these army something powerful and cheap because if not they real power it's hard to achieve, and this is where the BoW enter.
And since they are powerful but very expensive, u have watch very well for every unit, and one of these units...are the Dwarfs. And the dwarfs on the Multi, with their speed, almost sucks, and this is where the Ptolos enter, even u can use it also for improve the armour of some elves.

But if you still think they are very powerfull, this is where the ZzUu post enter 

-To ZzUu: i think u got one point there Z, and i see u got the formula to the Goblins. As i post earlier, the Humans and Greenskins have many problems with the Gobs combinations, but as with the Black Grail, they are not imba. Still some future revisions colud be made with the amount of insects, what u propouse?

-And to Warp: Man, i have not idea what are u talking, "Fluffy"? like the biscuit cakes with milk? haha  lol ,my english is real bad  , i'm sorry, but i really want to know your point so, another words can be used  ?


Ok, i wanted to post in other topics but i'm sleepy and have to work, so Champions, tx a lot for all your support and entusiasm with the ruleset and i hope to battle with all of you with the Factions someday, wait for your replies! Bye  !

[alavet]

for some reasons i pretty like your posts with so many smiles in it, lol

yeah i and flak tested you army with 5k points "by default" or at least i hope so, cause i def used 5k army and if he pwnd me with 3k army then... lol

about "endurance" run - i dont like the idea of endurance much, cause this means that virtually every "endurance" army will include archers and mage and so on, which cuts a lot of strategies and tactics out.

dont know what to say else, except that we possibly should change some points of FACTIONS for 5k games, even tho i dont know how, cause played very little in that. hopefully ill play more at this month..

[Ghabry]

It was a 3k ruleset? oops, my fault, had totally forgotten this .
sry djlebomb

[Flak]

lol yes its 3000 you 2 knuckleheads

so this means my poor 3000 army has been struggling to fight 5000 armies


I think you are right DJ in the idea that smaller army pool's should improve the unit knowledge and specific tactics.
It will also break up some of the strong racial armies and new thinking is a must


By no means am i tryn to change your Factions with the other ruleset, Factions is a battle ruleset
what ive been messing with is a survival ruleset with more specific sides like you have and i have tested how faction armies do if they where to fight more battles and it has given me a good idea of how armies are effected by heavy losses, the kind we often see in multiplayer.

I know that bembelimen is very keep to use Factions in the May tournament.

[alavet]

thats mainly shows how deep elves are disbalanced (or how good Flak in cheating :D)

[Flak]

Well i spose it was only the 1st battle that i had a real 3000, the rest of the battles i had the money and XP earned in the previous battles

[WarpGhost]

-And to Warp: Man, i have not idea what are u talking, "Fluffy"? like the biscuit cakes with milk? haha  Grin lol ,my english is real bad  Embarrassed , i'm sorry, but i really want to know your point so, another words can be used  Huh?

'Fluff' is a slang term used in Warhammer groups to mean 'background material' and 'setting' and stuff like that. If something is 'fluffy' then it fits very well into the established world of Warhammer.

[bembelimen]

I think the most "problem" for all player are the 3 elves archer, perhaps you (DJLeBomb) could explain why there are 3 or decrease them to 2 (imho 2 archers shouldn't be a problem at all) So everyone is happy

At all I think this ruleset deserves a try in the next tournament, then we'll see if it is as "imba" as some people think

[alavet]

i think elves should be in x1 quantity as max, having another extremely good regiments at this faction.

also we possibly need to boost up necromancers - this faction seems to weak. moomies too slow and coward

[Flak]

2 wood elf archers is fair, the Alliance Faction already have the most expensive units and can only get around 4-5 units anyway.

[Ghabry]

Alavet and me compared our ALLIANCE Army yesterday and we both had the exact same ones:
3 Wood Elf Archers
2 Glade Guards (+Banner of Wrath)

Don't forget that Elf archers are as good in close combat as glade guards. So even if you can reach them you have a hard fight against them.

[tovertrut]

im not to big of a fan of goblin factions...they win vs empire and orcs easely because of their horn and r underpowered against some undead amrys and flaglants...

the horn rly takes alot of the fun out of fighting against em(at least for me it does)
i find that with the horn they are overpowered although i also see how without the horn they would be underpowered...

[DjLeBomb]

  People!

I have change one thing on the Alliance faction: Wood Elves Archers now have a 2 maximum of units, instead of 3.

The reason as come from the result on the May tournament and from some testing games, but it's not for the normal performance of this Faction; the reason for the change it's one tactic that Bembelimen as being using (totally legal please don't think wrong!!  ), but that i haven't see it before  , i will make a topic explaining this with videos when i have time but basically the idea is:

 Don't leave your fire units (Archers, Crossbowmen, pistolliers, and spellcasters, NO cannon, mortar,etc.) be quiet if your units are in melee; face them in a way that the projectile goes straight from the fire unit, to the enemy unit involved in close combat. The unit is going to cramble in pieces withouth other option that force a retreat or die in the deadly rain  .

Maybe some of you have notice this effective way of using missils but i have battle with several of you and Bembe was the only one that i can remember to use it, and in a very efective way  ! i must say that i'm practicing this technique for the nex fights haha

You can see an example of this on the video posted by Ghabry on the May tourny, the Semifinal betwen him and Bembe; look how devastating is the Elven Archer unit from the right of the screen, once it get free from the Skeleton Cavalry  .

But, as i repeat, the Elves are not the only one that can use well this tactic, i have even test it with great succes on the Flak Campaign with the Ice Mage against the terrific Golems; meanwhile they where hitting some unit, i cast Ice Shards and they where all cold ice  !

Ok, thats it for now, baez.