Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

Hello Guys i think can might aswell begin the startup for next Game of Conquest

Sigh up in this topic
Make sure that you have the required time, to check online no less than once a day to make moves, fight battles and post results and anything else as the game will change daily.
Also upon sigh up please post at what time of day you will be online to make it easier to organize the battles as the players themselves has to organize and play the battles. I as GM will not be around to set fights up, it has to be the players own initiative.
When you sight up keep a lookout for the latest version of Conquest, but download an older version and look thru it to get the general idea.
Also post 2 choices for Nation, they are not locked and can be altered before start it just to give me an idea of which will be player, i also encourage former players to pick new nations for this game.

For former players lets discuss what we can improve :)

New players: Welcome, read comment and learn  ;)


Players Signed up
Flak----------------Necro-Empire
Alavet-------------Goblin-Necro-Merc
Nitrox--------------Vampire-Empire
Cholio--------------Empire-Drow
Warhammerfreak     Drow-Goblin
Bembelimen---------Orc-Allied-Mercenary (unsure)

Hi, are u already have time to set up this thing? Whats up with your hard drive? hope everything ok sir!

i want you to
1) update ruleset & balance changes if something new (like, i hvnt remembered, did we gave grail "unbeatable" option?
2) maybe implement new rule? - army can't escape from battle more than 2 times? is it ok? just to prevent unbeatable armies...
3) maybe improve skeleton horsemen jsut a little? they're so weak and spider like the similar unit  for price 150 as causing fear & speed. (yes i know that horsemen unbreakable. but they cost 850 though and dying like goblins)
my choice is Goblins (pref.) >> Necromancers > Mercs

hey mate, oh yeah i have time now back from holiday  ;D

my hard drive is still very dead but i didnt have any DO stuff on, tho my wife would like to get the wedding pics back as they where on it lol but thats another story.

I think i did implement the last balancing that we spoke of but i will ofcz look it all over again
Its always been the rule that if a territory holding and army is invaded then the army cannot move away, but if its not specific in the rules then it will be.
I would reckon that it wouldnt be a crime to give skeleton horsemen some improvement as they are rubbish with only 12 fast but weak men, that only have any use if they carry Skabath

Yeah, she looked like this when news of the hard drive struck her:
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/empire/portraits/flagellants.png)

HAHA

no it wasnt popular

Orc > Allied > Merc, if I will join (unsure)

I'm still House Hunting, so can't Join again, incase of having to move midway

but Great to watch last time, along with the Maps and after Battle Descriptions.

Good Luck to All!

:)

I may be online during the three last weeks of this month.
How long is Conquest ?

last one was from May 21st to 21st July or there about and that was stopped, it didnt end as such eventho some of the Victory conditions was meet we just played on.

Sign me in ;)
Vampire>Empire

welcome back nitrox i trust the holiday was nice  :)

Thank :) yes it's was nice, I've visited my family. Visited them last time about 9 years ago ;) so it's was very nice. How about your holidays? :D


Ok so about dont offtop, there will be many changes in a rule book between 1st edition ?

great time in greece thanks ;D

no major changes so far but ill update with any changes

Howdyo, been a bit off last the last weeks as i've been on vacation down in denmark =) anyways sign me in and i'd like to play as either empire or drow

hehe the gang is gathered again now  ;D

I would  like to join to, I would like to have the drow again. but if it isn't possible I would love to play with goblins.

OK guys we have had some sign up time now and i am planning to start the game by the weekend.
Im glad to see that you guys have all came back  ;D and even one new player to maybe join  ;D

So gang take another think about what nation you wanna play with, take a look at this weekend if your able to make the first move or if its too busy then we can push it a few days

hey guys as you may have noticed ive not been around as much as usual lately, i am sorry for that.
Ive hit a busy spell, so i think the start will have to be postponed a few weeks, until my new temp job has come to an end.
Next week i will be in Poland and later in September ill be in Latvia, so until im fully back to my normal work times i think its best to hold of just a few weeks.

i will forgive you if you change avatar to the outlaw or any other from "in-game" avatars

 ;) ill consider it

Postponing the campaign for a few weeks is fine by me, since school is starting soon so i'll be pretty busy as well.

i hope its ok for everyone

and btw Cholio watch out if your near a road on sunday im racing thru Sweden ;D

For me too it's ok.


And you know in what city you will be in poland ;)?

If you see someone shaking his fist to your car, saying "Danskjävlar!" ("Danish bastards!") with Ernst-Hugo Järregård's voice, you know it is me! :) (This reference will be utterly lost on 99.99% of all that reads this post)

If you drop by, give me a ring!

hehe that is one of the best nicknames btw ;D

i only going to Karlskrona so sorry no can do  >:(, how fast am i allowed to go btw?  :-\

Flak Answer me :(

Good question. The new Highways are set at 120 km/h, older ones at 110, major roads at 90, minor ones at 70, and city speed limits are 50 km/h, except at schools, hospitals and sensitive areas where it is set to 30 :)

You're given a latitude of  6 km/h in laser-measured speed controls, any more and you're fined up to 500 euro. Speed by 30 or more and your license will be confiscated on the spot.

Hope that helps :D

yes and damm speed cams in the towns too along E22, which btw is not a motorway as the name might suggest  ::) swedish....

The swedish customs also stopped me and was looking for alcohol, just because im danish and travel from poland in a van doesnt make me a smuggler  ::) swedish..... 

In any case i am back now and we may prepare the new game

I hope you guys are all still fired up and eager to go ;D

I'm waited for it! :D

changing avatars? maybe you might add flag of your country on new in-game avatar in PhotoMarket (or whatever program you use i forgot)

by the way, what about re-naming topic of Conquest from "Multiplayer Campaing / Overview to osmething like "AMAZING CONQUEST" or whatever.

i'd have troubles to find this topic if im not using "search new posts" function.

This is not a bad plan, but it is above my level to do so (i think) :o

Maybe: Dark Omen Conquest, sub txt: Conquer the world of Warhammer

Hello! Maybe this time we dont write something like that at start :


Flak Allied Moves


But we gonna make names for our kingdoms and write something like :

The Bogenhafen vampires


It's only a proposition.

that is a good idea, just as long as its names that are not too wierd hehe

hey Flak i think (since there is more players and its get to a little more serious level) you need to post all armies cost/levels/permissions (and perhars stats) in one single topic so we might balance it.

and you'd also need to keep changelog so we might see how everythign changed from what etc.. since i guess there might be some minor and evne some major in balance during Conquest. for now i think we need to test Necros strongly and maybe weaken goblins just a lttle (or tweak orcs? we played 2 battles with whfreak vercus his orcs and i won with losing only 1-2 regiments per battle). maybe allow not all troops of gobbos7k be a lvl2, just some of them (shaman is okish with lvl2 cause he suck anyway).

also why we start 7k battles? its "fine" by me but sitll isnt it too huge? (especially with all this crap like "escaping from the battlefield"?

maybe we need to restrict armies to escape from battle to x1-x2 times max per army life?

i havnt made any major changes, only what we spoke of after last game.
but i will try to keep a log in future. All the unit info is in the rulebook.

Ive tested necro's, they seem ok, i was playn nitrox and his vamps, so i cant fully base their strength on those battles, but they seem able to stand their ground, i also need to learn to use them better.
What kinda weakening for goblins did you consider? you have played them more so give me your suggestion, maybe not have fanatics be lvl 2?
As for orcs i dont know, i mean they now have 2 trolls per regiment and cheaper cavalry than before, what could we do? make orc boys lvl2?

If we use 5000 which i like myself, we may face the same as before, an army that grows strong beyond what even 3 5000 armies can match, with 7000 we found that even strong XP armies wasnt sure of winning vs a new army.
Defeated armies may be disbanded and if they dont have 4 survivors they are forced to disband. In most cases a defeated army isnt capable of fighting another battle and is better of being disbanded and a new build anyway.

yes fanatics to 1lvl is a nice idea. it will'nt stop me from using them anyway, though.

as for orcs i actually dunno. need futher test by orcs, - maybe they're good and whfreak doesnt use them rpoperly? even though they're kidna "boring" since they dont have any special units in it...what about adding up some unit for them like orc boars *by olly)?

It may well be I don't use orcs propperly.

but it will make them a lil weaker, however how will goblins do vs undead if we make them weaker?

what about fix map in locations:
2-2-B and 1-6-B
3-7-D & 2-3-E
3-17-B & 2-4-C
3-1-E &2-9-E
3-8-I & 2-4-I
etc etc etc.

i think its disbalanced & illogical.

Some Questions about armies:

1. I can create 3 Armies based on 7k having all regiments (in allowed amounts) except the UU (Elven Druid)?

2. When I visit a depot I can immediately buy an UU unit in the army?

3. I can buy up to 5 humanoid and free items per army?

Flak: Is it possible to visit the chat? Have lots of questions about the rules ^^


Oh and why has Nitrox no armies placed on the map? The position is important to think about possible moves of the enemy... And because I'm near Nitrox it's important to have the positions

since i have some time at work i may answer you :)

>>>>yes

>>>> as long as you have UU territory you might buy 1st UU unit (if you have several units, you willnt be able to buy second "rank" of UU untill u have UU territory.
as for redesing army - its possible to add any NEW regiments only at depots and it takes 1 whole turn to stay.

>>>>you can buy all items of your race and one "free" item and all "upgrade items". but you're limited to 5non-upgrade items per army as max.

Uh...Ghabry is right, i'm dont get any units on map i think it's only mistake, so can you repair it Flak :)?

You start at the D D C points, as the other player do.

ok another balance issue just appeared (after another test with whfreak): flagellants really ovepowered. but its not the main point.

main point is that they stack with mortairs = gg to everything.(especially hordes like goblins or orcs). Grails also stands no chance cause x3 flags can kill him easilly, i guess same might be for mummies. ptoloss might be used for allied nation to kill mortairs but its not reasonable item.

it seems that these 2 types of units shouldnt be in one army. its like x3 flagellants = 1 grail (or even better) + mortairs.. ouch!
my suggestion is to restrict usign both units at the same time. either mortairs or flagellants. if it wil show too much weakness (even though i dont "trust" much to armies which they have artillery in their forces) we might apply another rule: 1 flagellants max if mortair used. but i think it should be done only after other tests.

i have just increased the cost for flaggelants, no 1 grail wont win, but 1 wight with banner prolly will, flaggelants are weak if outnumbered because they only have 9 men.

Also they are the only slightly better troops empire has, as empire has 2 basic infantry units other than them.

p.s. after few futher test we see that orcs really suck they dont have any "special" units liek fanatics /elven archers/flagellants/mummies etc and higly suffer from low moral. level2 for some regiments of orcs definately should be used. or perhars shaman lvl3 instead of lvl other units - why not? orc magic suck and 7k armies are huge

i completely agree.

 but they not outnumbered when facing with attack of like 5-6 remaining goblins after few shots of mortair? btw! i have just great idea about mortairs & artillery!
what if we restrict any MANUAL shots with mortairs/lobbers (untill all armies are engaged in battle or other logical rule) how do you think?

Maybe we should limit the units who are unbreakable, maybe max 2, so you can have 2 flags or 1 unit+defiance and 1 flag.

And 2 mortars are ridiculous, and they are to cheap or my lobbers are to expensive because they cost the same and lobber is not near as good.

Maybe in addition to what I've said increase the cost of flags because 560 is really a bargain.

I don't really know what could make orcs better, maybe increase unit size or increase lvl? And why not make the green wizzards an higher lvl because their magic is worse then any other.

ive always felt that rock lobber is the best artillery in the game, maybe i am wrong, it has longer range
orc magic is also rather powerful esp like "ere we go" and fist of gork so that would be too over powered

hold on with orcs and empire armies i will make a few improvements

and not to bee a dick but necros seems very strong at this moment (for 7k armies, for 5k they're maybe weak, lol).

see what i did with necros:
mummy+banner
necro+wand
x3 cavalry
x2 skelly archers
x2 skeletons
x1 wraights.

????

PROFIT!

how can you beat this army with anything? maybe some treemans can handle it (not sure). guess mortairs + flagellants might kill them. what orc army you expect might beat such armybuild as above pls advice me. (you need to do several vital mistakes with Necros to lose vs orcs. maybe it's tougher agaisnt gobbos but still.)

I have two "questions" about the moves:

alavets move:

G1 moves from 2-12-I to 2-10-I
G3 moves from 3-9-I to 2-6-I

is it allowed to move 2 fields in his own country and than make one move in a new country?

Flaks moves:

UN1 moves 3-6-C to 2-8-B

There is no army at 3-6-C o.O

in my Necro tests ive suffer bad defeats, mummies have dies easy due to their slow speed and skeletons die fast if the enemy doesnt flee, i guess we will see.

I plan to make an update some turns into the game when we know more.

Yes in friendly (own or allied) territories you can move 2 fields, in neutral or hostile you move 1

i have corrected my numbers thanks

I have made adjustments to empire and orc

Orcs
Orcs now have +2 troops in boars, biguns and arrers. Orc boyz have +4 troops
They have 4 trolls in a gang (before 3)
Barbarian Cavalry now has 18 (before 16)

Empire
Flaggelants cost 720 not 520 and only 2 allowed per army

Please all download the files
WHF & Cholio, i will not force you to make new armies with new cost when game has started unless you want to, but i do demand that flaggelants be kept to 2 per army, so a 3rd may be sold and replaced.

[attachment=1]

ALSO
Be aware of this rule addition we made last game, you may decide not to use militia armies but it is possible

Militia armies
An addition to the army rules is the militia army.
If a Capitol or depot which is unprotected gets attacked, then the population will rise against the invaders. The militia army will not be featured on the battlefield and only exist for the purpose of one battle. The general idea is to not allow small defeated armies to bypass the real armies and take vital lands, the rule is in effect to promote battle. If a capitol or depot is attacked by a real army then do not exspect to do more than a dent, the militia is not spose to be able to defend against a full army only to scare off small armies.
The militia armies will be made up from 3000 gc and also has a few restrictions as follows.
Militia Army Restrictions
No mages
No cavalry
No UU Units
Max 2 bow or artillery regiments
Max 1 monster
Max 1 item (Potion of Strength does not count as an item)

Luckily i only have 2 flags each in my armies :)

Lets say I would be able to get a second UU-Depot in this turn
Is there any use for me to have it?

Imo it should allow me to buy a second UU in my armies but the elven druid limit is 1... same is btw for Grail Knight

Isn't it possible to increase the number? It's already difficult enough to have more then 1 and not having any advantage (except weaken the enemy) is bad :/.

There is a bonus for being the first to capture 2 UU ters, aswell as the fact there is only 5 UU ters and 7 players so having 2 UU ters will keep many enemies from getting UUs and that in itself is useful.

question/suggestion:

i guess the first lost player should be able to play again for the current grey side, but we need implement few rules about that:

- "grey" player shouldbt be able to attack his 'destroyer" or his ally for at least 2-3 turns.
- "grey" player should choose another nation, than he played before.

how do u think?

Could you make the two green colours more distinct? They're virtually identical on my laptop. I was like, "*****, he conquered that much already?!"...

hehe looks like we have the same laptop mika. But even on my better monitor I wasn't able first to see the difference.

Alavet and WhFreak, you are allied right?
You both make a move to 3-18-B. Is it allowed to have 2 armies on the same field? (or do you want to fight but its a bit strange to fight against an ally)

It's allowed, you can multiply defence this territory if there is a two armies (ally) as i remember, same with a multiply attack.

No it's not allowed to have 2 armies on one land, but you can attack one land with two armies, when they are arround. After the fight, one army will stay at the new land the other will go back to its start land.

Hmm, yes? Then sorry bout my mistake ^^

is 2-5-c & 3-2-C connected?

No

alavet, im currently at work now, but if u're available later tonight at around 21:30-22:00 gmt+1 ill be able to do our fight :)

sorry i GMT+3 so i cant. maybe tomorrow? if you'd have time...

concerning multi attacks and defense.

A territory can not hold 2 armies, however!
A territory can hold more armies for the purpose of multi attack or defenses. The armies do not exactly occupy the territory but they support the main army and after the battles they return to their own territory.

Such an order is called multi defense and attack

Army7 moves from 1-1-A to 2-1-A multi defense/attack

Flak, im not readed all the posts, but it seems like the "black" drow race is not controlled by anyone. Can i play with it? I just want to know more about this game style, i already readed topic "conquest game book" so i know few rules.

Give him chance Flak ;)

that is true, black or RED as it should be is free

Red is however in the rear of 2 nations that both have wars to the south, so i cannot fairly add you immediately.
I will give them 2 turns to move their armies into position before i add you.
Read more rules, decide on what nation you like.

Most importantly make sure you have the time to keep up, we are moving much faster this time than last game, you'd need to be online daily!

I choose drow (or how they named).
Im online 60% of a day =)

i think goblins with fanatics should be reviewed in price. for like 570-650 or so - they're close in value for flagellants in my opinion - each unit has each own huge potential but both units very fragile - flags have no armour and only 9 men, goblins have very low moral. even though goblins should be priced lower.

maybe, i repeat, MAYBE empire should be rebalanced since in two battles vs cholio i only lost 2 regiments total (2 in first when he had mortair and no in secodn when he didnt) but for sure need more tests with empire army. i kindly ask all players who able to, test empire vs other races. from my 2 battles it seems that they need better groudn support if they dont use mortairs (and it should be a problem for them if they dont want to use mortairs)

i feel little strange that after like every other battle i think about balance. but seems that in connquest have so many situations and variations so it will be very hard to balance it right.

i really afraid that it might become to something like that: goblins beats empire, empire beats orcs, orcs beats necros, necros beats vampires, vampires beats mercs, mercs beats ally etc etc in dozens variations, so there might be some situation which we willnt be ble to balance right.

but we need mroe test to figure it out.

maybe you are correct or maybe increasing cost and max allowed for flaggelants was too rash

Alavet adviced me to do some testing, since he easily beat me in both of our battles that we have had so far. So i did some tests vs sipax's drow armies.

armybuild 1
1 cannon 1 mortar 2 fanatics 1 wizard with book of ashur 2 halberds and 1 archer

this army build worked "well" vs sipax drows, i won with having 1 fanatic regiment with 2 fanatics left in it in the field
the 2nd battle i lost, mainly cause he had lots of cavalry that outran my artillery fire.


armybuild 2
1 mortar with arcane warding 1 cannon 1 wizard with book of ashur 1 cavalry with potion of strength 1 fanatic 1 halberder

this army sucked badly, one his drows got close it massacred it in melee, running them over completely


armybuild 3
2 mortars 2 fanatics 2 halberds and 1 swordsman

again the mortars was outrun by his cavalry, but was both shot down quickly by two regiments of archers once they got close, but i still believe they did some decent damage to his army, but since he had so many units it did not make much of a difference. But i figured that having lots of melee units as well i'd match his massive force. But alas I did not.


armybuild 4
2 fanatics one having arcane warding 2 archers 1 wizard with book of ashur 3 halberds

Wanted to see how an army without artillery would work, and it did surprisingly well cause the archers did much damage to his army, but it was still outmatched fairly easy because his cavalry flanked me and hit my archers.


Armybuild 5
2 fanatics 1 mortar 1 archer 1 mage 1 cavalru and 1 halberd
I lost this one without making any sufficent damage to sipax's drows. My cavalry engaged one of his cavalry units in battle and ran away after some time with heavy casualties. My mortar managed to decimate another of his cavalry units to 3 men, but his one charged the mortar team and slew it. My halberds was chased away, but returned only to be mowed down by spells from his necromancer


1 empire cav cost 999 gold vs 1 drow cav cost 999 gold.
Ended in empire cavalry fleeing away and being run down completely.
Drow cavalry had 7-9 ( i think ) units left alive.

2nd test with the cavalry ended pretty much the same, empire cavalry running off and the drow cavalry having 9 units left alive


1 halberd vs 1 drow swordsmen
halberds were slaughtered and the drow swordsmen had 12 units left alive out of 18.




I believe that empire is to dependant on its ranged units. The flaggelants are the ones that are the ones that are most effiecent in melee, since halberds and swordsmen tends to run away alot. Cavalry are an expensive unit, so if i was to combine artillery and cavalry it would become a relatively small army, which chould easily be overrun by a massive force such as drow or goblins. And most units of empire runs away very easily exept for the flaggelants ofcourse. The drow cavalry is immune to fear and has leadership 8 whilst empire cavalry costs the same and has only 7 in leadership, so the empire cavalry needs to either be reduced in cost or boosted in stats.

So overall in my oppinion the empire team is pretty bad. May be so that my armybuilds sucks but anyhow the units are overall pretty weak ^^ the only ones capable of relying on is the flaggelant, since they wont run away. So belive that the empire team needs some reconsidering in balance.


if sipax could post his armybuilds it would be helpful :). and please leave your oppinion of the outcomes as well.

My army builds:

1) Assassin with Skab. Sword./ x3 Cavalry units/ Wizard+Wand / 2 Archers reqiments / 1 Infantry (swordsmans)
<- Mobile army with ranged troops and mystic.

2) Assasins / x3 Cavalry / 1 Wizard / 5 Infantries.
<- Mostly hand-to-hand horde.

This is all armies what i had.
Im totally agree with Cholio-
Empire cavalry must be reduced in cost. Think 800-850 or about it, is good for that really light cavalry. (cowardly & weak)

But in some battles Cholio has the opportunity to win, but some mortair misses crushed it.

yes, seems that empire need to be busted in meele units. flagellants has x2 attack and good battle stats so they might kill very fast, but they have no armour so they getting killed fast as well..
x3 flagellants maybe too much still.. at least not x3 flagellants and x2 mortairs at same combo - it working so deadfull on some maps (like Tutorial, Goblin forest at Night, Border Counties, Vingertone etc). i suggest to somehow fix halberds & knights and perhars add some another meele unit? dunno.


//and full list of units with at least prices (and better+stats) will help balancing a lot.

Alavet, think flaggelats is ok, they just not effective against big hordes.

The empire units are indeed to costy and to weak, and they need to be more balanced. I believe that the great swordsmen should be made to some sort of medium infantry, since they now cost more then the halberds but have the same stats. I believe that having the halberds as "cannon fodder" so to say might work and keeping them around the current stats they have atm.

While moddifying the great swordsmen so that they can be used to rely on as medium infantry, and they wont run away as easily as halberdiers. And i think that the cavalry should be boosted in stats, not in cost, since the grail knights are unique and expensive so they are hard to get a hold on. If they are reduced in cost the empire team will still have mainly weak melee units, leaving them still vulnerable in melee and having to rely to much on the artillery.

Great Swordsmans had Two handed weapon, which has +2 ST bonus i belive but -IN so they must be good to support cavalry in fight or be offence infantry, and has not too bad LD, Cholio. 7 LD is standart for all empire troops, while 5-7 for orcs&goblins so empire infantry isnt too bad. They cost as light infantry.
Maybe halberdiers need +2 mans in reqiment as they very useless. (+ polearm gives bonus only then charge)

UPD- hmm it seems like goblins has 6 LD. Strange. (they has big reqiments and not bad fight skills with VERY low cost)

Yeah i haven't looked in to the stats of any units particulary deep, im just throwing out suggestions of what might work of an army overall ^^.

i agree with both sipax and cholio

empire seems too weak, i defiantly think we will go back to the original allowed 3 flags,
i will also look into giving empire infantry some kind of edge as they are the backbone of any empire army, not support troops like their mercenary and orc boys counterparts.
Possibly a increase in IN or/and LD.
Knights have the same stats as Mercenary Cavalry, maybe these 2 cavalries should have LD 8, to stimulate that Knights  in general were better trained and maybe WS 4 and STR 4 isnt enough of an edge.

I will also take a look at Goblin Fanatics maybe we gave them too much of an edge or maybe if we give empire a boost it will even out.

Cholio and Alavet hold on with the battle until the issue is handled.

Uhm, which battle are you reffering to ? :) I don't think we are to do any battles atm

yeah sorry i see its done already, nevermind me mate

NEW UPDATE TO UNIT FILES ALL DOWNLOAD

Changes from Version 3.1 to 3.2

Goblins
Goblin fanatics have been increased in cost to 525 and 540

Empire
Halbardiers +1IN, +1LD, +1 Shield
Greatswords +1IN, +1 Shield
Knights +1LD
New Unit, Kemperbad Militia. 170gc, weak infantry.

Orcs
Orc boyz, boars and arrers +2 troops
Biguns +1 troop
Troll gang +1 troop

lets see how it will come...

GM NOTE

as we move into the multi attack/defense battles please all read the rules on army refilling at the button of this rule section.

Post Battle Army Restoration

This order is closely related to the battle order, this is when the player after a battle replaces the loses endured in the battle. Make note here, it is only possible to buy troops back to existing regiments and to ONLY buy back regiments that was in the army originally. No new regiments may be introduced. Also only the Upgrade items may be added to the army again although only if lost in the battle. New items may be fitted, 5 being the max. If an item that the army already has is captured from the enemy then it has to be sold, double items may not be saved. However it is perfectly fine to have more than 5 items as long as only 5 are used.
As a sub category to Army Restore is Army Refill which is what you is done when fighting a double-attack when no regiments may be purchases and only surviving regiments may have their ranks refilled. Only upgrade items may be purchased in an army refill. One exception is for Necromancers and Vampires, due to their high losses of regiments that will not retreat or that dies upon retreat (Skeletons/Wraiths/Wights), it is permitted that they raise the dead enemies into zombie regiments (not wight zombies).

So now that im doing an attack vs alavet who is double defending, if i win the first battle, i can refill the surviving regiments, and rebuy all regiments that have been killed during the fight correct?

erm no i think

inbetween multi battles you are only allowed to refill surviving regiments only, but after the last multi battle you may restore the army with the dead regiments

I have a question regarding this step: shouldn't get alavet an army instead of cholio, if he can defeat the attack? cause then he have 4 depots since 2 rounds or when will a player get his 4th army?

i just thought about multi battles and recently found that its little illogical for Cholio to double attack (its double attack since i double defend, lol?).

i think its possible if first battle will be on more "defending" side of me, and the secodn one (if i will loose) he will "defend", like it was a counter attack trying to take back territory.


p.s. and yea, actually I should get army also (and Cholio too, but only if he will lose both armies in my opinion. and whfreak should get new army as well, isn't he?

i think he cant get new army if he will lose only one army - it will be" too fast" and reduces attacking strategies pretty much.

that is correct cholio lost a depot and will not get an army i dont know what i was thinking

I think so too, there are 2 possibilities:

- alavet will win the fight: he will get his 4th army, cause he had his new depot for a full round. cholio will get a new army after next round, cause he have to wait for one round to replace the lost. (if he can hold 2 depots).
- cholio win the fight: nobody will get an army, but cholio will get a new one at the end of next round, if he can hold the depot.

alavet about the battles, i don't know yet if iam going to be online hamachi tonight since im going out. But i might be online late at night around 2-3 gmt+1.

If not tonight then im positive that i will be online the whole evening and night tomorrow. Please post what time fits for you :).

Flak, is there a reason why you got 3-5-C because in the last turn it wasn't yours and you moved no regiment on it to capture it.

when a single neutral land is surrounded by a players territory then it is captured automatically.
We implemented this last game as all nations had big holes in their land and it looked very odd
i think ive also already used this rule in ghabry's land also

Is this rule mentioned anywhere?
Because its annoying to play with not written done rules, who knows what other special rules you created last play besides this 2 one (get surrounded land and the 1alliland+1enemyland-move)

Normaly nobody should get a new army (neighter you nor alavet), cause alavet lost his army last turn, so he have to wait for next turn to get a new one. you had last turn only 2 depots/capitol, so you don't get an army, but you can create a new army, when you can hold all three depots/capitols this turn. When I understand the rules correctly, you have to hold a new depot for a whole turn to get a new army.

well yes, maybe we both should nt get new armies


but form the simple logic i have enough "supply resources" to produce new army since i never produced new army but cholio did.
from current rules i probably aint able to get new army as well as cholio cause we need to wait whole turn.

but again, its not much reasonable, i think each depot should have some "delay"  for creating new armies (need to think about hope to implement it). currently i foudn pretty hard to attack since enemy armies spawns like a hydra :(

see: if cholio get new army now, i will most possibly lose battle vs capitol (since he wil play at the defending side) and this will mean that i won first 3 battles and got totally pwned cause cant win upcoming armies...

That's the point:

We have here two events:

First you conquer cholios depot, so you could get a new army after the next round (every army needs one round for respawn). But before the army was respawn, you lost the depot again, so your "new army" cannot be created. It's trashed.

Second you lost an army, this army needs now a round to respawn, so you can replace it after this turn. You cannot replace it with your 4th army, cause then you would bypass the one turn delay.

Cholio has the same as you in point one: he lost one depot, so he cannot respawn a new army, now he conquered it back and his third army starts to respawn. It will be finish after this turn and can be placed, if he has still enough space (means 2 depots+ 1 capitol) to place it. If you will conquer a depot from him, his 3rd army is trashed again and your 4th army starts to respawn.

bembelimen is correct cholio
but you do get to use a militia army to defend your depot with, look up militia army rules

GM NOTE

Militia armies
An addition to the army rules is the militia army.
If a Capitol or depot which is unprotected gets attacked, then the population will rise against the invaders. The militia army will not be featured on the battlefield and only exist for the purpose of one battle. The general idea is to not allow small defeated armies to bypass the real armies and take vital lands, the rule is in effect to promote battle. If a capitol or depot is attacked by a real army then do not exspect to do more than a dent, the militia is not spose to be able to defend against a full army only to scare off small armies.
The militia armies will be made up from 5000 gc and also has a few restrictions as follows.
Militia Army Restrictions
No mages
No cavalry
No UU Units
No mummies or wights
Max 2 bow or artillery regiments
Max 1 monster
Max 1 item (Potion of Strength does not count as an item)

bembe i completely agree with what you saying - i thought the same.

but i mean that i just killed 3 armies and at the next turn if cholio will have 3 depots still it will be like he is in the same situation as the start of the game. which is not very good news for attackers (=attack is very difficuilt with current rules).

i mean at previous turns he possibly got some of armies without delay of one turn.

i totally agree with the question about this fighting depot we're talking about

p.s. flak why there is only north terrain in my fights? is it my unluckiness or its a territory of CHolio?

i understand alavet but we cannot have the game be over when the first 3 armies have been lost

i dont understand what you are asking about the terrain

about terrain i mean that liek 3or 4 battles were on snowy terrai nand all snowy terain is usually big (good for mortairs ^^)

Ok then, i'll use the miltia to defend the depot then :)

ah yes, thats because you fight in mountains, isnt it fun, last game was all forrest all the time

I think my army 2 is supposed to be disbanded and my 4th army should be created previous turn.

sorry your 2nd army is the new one, thats been created this turn

some balance issues: feel free to correct/add remarks to my thoughts

i tested goblins/empire vs drow (with sipax) and we tested empire vs necros (with cholio) and just tested drows vs orcs with whfreak
for empire we agreed with cholio that 2 mortairs is definately too good for empire. they're very deadly, especially on middle-to-large maps (like training, vingetrone, goblin forrest at night, etc).

as for flagellans issue - it need to be tweaked somehow. maybe remain 3 flags still ok (since now w/o mortairs flagellants easier to outnumber).

i personally think (and cholio agree) that drow cavalry seems pretty strong. i dont know whats the reason, maybe immune to fear adds up another effect to moral, but they're fleeing like never (and they have 3 allowed regiments). we think stats for it should be revised - LS from 8 to 7 seems reasonable. maybe tweaking their stats as well (or price?).
maybe some other fixed should be applied for drows - i highly recommend all to test drows agaisnt diffirent nations. jsut feling that they're very (too?) strong against goblins & empire.

also please choose another banner for x-men of drow and swordmen - its literally impossible to see whcih of them are xmen and which swordmen in the heat of battle.

p.s. also drows assasins range is too high. theyre capable to provoking armies, if enemy doesnt have another very long ranged units or artillery (and even if he had). range of xbow should be reduced for assasins

p.p.s. and their infantry also pretty good. we jsut tested it with whfreak and they're really strong (we didnt use cavalry). maybe it was cause of he used x2 assasins?

How does the UU thing works, I don't really know it because last game (drow) i couldnt use any.

At first you need at least one UU-Territory. Then you have to place an army on a Depot. Then wait the next round on it and you can change your army and you can add an UU to it. If your race has 2 different UU-Units you have to get 2 UU-Territory then you can place both in an army.

important addition: if u have only 1 UU territory u can choose only 1st UU unit fro mthe list.

so for example for vampires if u have only 1 UU u only able to get 1 wight zombies, not chaos infantry
at least it what i heard from flak during first conquest

Drow is the dark horse of conquest i agree that they are not as well balanced

My main idea was to have them with all troops immune to fear and higher cost but maybe that doesnt work.
Their regiments cost more than regular human regiments. Maybe its needed to remove immune to fear as only have higher LD to simulate their dark nature.

would it be better to give assasin a shortbow? maybe with a good rate?
i will maybe give drow xbows the empire xbow banner or skeleton banner which is best?
i will change rules to 1 mortar and we will see how the flaggelants do with less support

well skeleton maybe better. shortbow is ok for assasin even with good rate.
its ok if they immune to fear but maybe fighting skills should be lower then. as for cavalry ls=7 might work as well.. mayeb assasin' WS or TO should be lowered. they're very hd to kill. actually i never ever killed any assasin in all my tests, i mostly made them flee (cause they seems like not immune to fear)

i have changed banner
made Drow weaker in combat but retain immune to fear
Assasin now have shortbows and have less WS/TO/ST

There can i download new drows files?

here you go mate

Nitrox had to go to bed. sry, we will get the results tomorrow ;).


In the meantime I had two fights against whfreak.

First Drow against my Army with UU Druid (great unit btw). At first I had some problems with the rush but was finally able to defeat them...

And second was against a Orc Faction. Had heavy looses but was finally able to win. And while fighting the last archer I got a................. DISCONNECT! (yeah!)

But all in all vs. Alliance the races look balanced we had both heavy looses in the battle ^^.

well not much sure in alliance balance or perhars you're using wrong build? :) when we played with flak with our 7k armies i think i always has like 30% to win with my vampires agaisnt elves.

these treeman and guards soo strong and archers so deadly.. maybe flak changed cost after that but i dont think so:)
but i guess its fun to play with allies :)


i believe drow might kill them, cause they have big crowds and these crowds unluckily to flee (and not suck that much as skeletons).

i had a strong build against you alavet but i have increased cost for allied units and we lowered the elven bowmens rate of fire also so i hope that they are balanced

remember that my strong HA1 army earned much of its money when it had 3 treemen, now with only 2 being allowed and lower rate of fire for bowmen it should be a tougher fight

I have a question, why do we use the most unbalanced map in the game??( road to kislev) I mean if the defender would have shooting that doesn't require line of sight he's victorious.

Imo Northern Wastes is more imba. But compared to Road to Kislev it's not a capitol map ;).
All in all these 2 maps are the most imba at least.

but is northern waste unba enough to make it a capitol map?

capitol maps are suppose to be imba, thats the whole point of them but it is not impossible to win on these maps, it does mean however you cant expect to win using just one army, which i think is not unrealistic as the capitol's are suppose to be the best defended castle in the land.

what about jsut making capitol armies as a 9k (idea of Nitrox) and restrict them from leaving the capitol. and stop using soem of "imba" maps.

I don't like the idea, military shouldn't be a strong army, it should be only be a small defense against weak armies. I would like to see, that every capitol has a really imba map but only a 3k army, so that every greater army will win.

As second point every player should be forced to fight with this army, when the capitol will be attacked and there have to be enough matches, so that the whole army is destroyed (if one regiment flees, you have to fight with this regiment in a second fight etc.). It shouldn't be, that a player can give up his capitol without fighting.

ok, imagine u play any UD nation. how are you goign to win without archers on any "imba" map with 3k army agaisnt 5/7k?

"imba" maps only can suit for empeire and some of orcs, but UD always agressors, they can't "defend" unless try to not get in range of mortairs.


you know, in Russia at 1812 year Kutuzov leave from Moscow without defence, which actually helped him to win this war vs Napoleon Bonaparte ,-)

hovewer i can see your points for Human nations.
But Greenskins & UD don't actually need capitols that much in my opinion, cause they're not that much socialized as Hummies. maybe some libraries/other central palces can be subject of defend but in that case citizens don't need it that much.

at least for UD, cause they dont have citizens at all.. (do they? :))

That's the point, you shouldn't win. I think this military army has only one use: avoid, that a small army can get the capitol for free, but it shouldn't replace a normal army. So for example, if a 5k/7k army will attack, you should lose your capitol, if you don't defend with a regular army otherwise nobody would use his armies for defending.


First I wrote something like: "This didn't happen in RL" but I deleted this sentence before I sent the post ;) So you're right, but on the other hand you cannot say: "if I will lose the capitol, I will rescue my army, if I will lose my army the whole land is lost." ;)

the main idea for capitol maps is that 1 army shouldnt be considered enough, it was intended to give a sense of being under siege. Altho possible its not common to win with 1 army.

It wasnt the intention to make every map used a "fair" map or i would have only used the same boring maps we use in tournaments. Here it was the intention to for the battle maps used to simulate the terrain on the map that they represent.
Sometimes it work out better than other times, im sure the Romans at Teutoburg Forrest would like to have had a large flat land to fight in instead of a congested forrest but you never know what ground you have to fight on.

As alavet says and as nitrox has done its perfectly in order to abandon the capitol.

Army sizes also has to remain the same for all, ive found that any 7k army can threaten another, who would wanna defend with 3-5k Goblins or Undead vs Allied 7k even on the most imba map.

I will agree as far as some maps may be in the wrong category, i also did consider assigning one map to each territory but that may end up with too much of the same map, like me an WHF have had endless many fights in only 2 territories.

One option i do see, is inspired by Emperor Trajan, when he invaded Dacia. The Dacian king and Trajan had a predeclared battlefield ready for where their armies was gonna fight the battle. I would agree to add to the diplomacy rules, "honorable war" where the 2 commanders meeting in battle may find their own battlefield from the list, belonging to the terrain in which the battle is in.

hey flak what about making some "skeleton commanders" or "great skeletons" for UD? with better stats, it can be elite troops...

thats a good idea alavet, sorta like ogres for undead

How much there barbarians riders (orc army) in the reqiment in CURRENT army-files. And there can be ownloaded CURRENT army files for all races ? (is that one in the Conquest Game Book is last updated army files?)

we tested drows with sipax and now feel that now they're too weak. especially assasins.

we propose:
1) remove bow from assasin, cause they dont pursue enemy if winning battle
2) add up +1 ws for second assasin i nregiment
3) reduce cost to 950 for assasins

also my friend advices me a very nice rule when we were discussing conquest. he advices to make a rule: IF THERE IS GOING TO BE ALLY VICTORY, IT SHOULD BE ONLY 2 PLAYERS ALLOWED TO BE IN ALLY AS A WINNERS.
so it will kep game more dynamic and prevent of forming too strong aliances (like 4 vs 2 etc)

i will make the changes to drow

the rules already allows only 2 player to allied victory, so that i dont need to change ;)

and here is the new full update with new updated drow and last times change to empire

do you mean Empire Changesas there:
Empire
Halbardiers +1IN, +1LD, +1 Shield
Greatswords +1IN, +1 Shield
Knights +1LD
New Unit, Kemperbad Militia. 170gc, weak infantry.

or somethign else?

Flak, you dorgot to delete "archer" type from the assassins. They have no bows, but still will not pursue the enemy in melee. Im doesnt tested that, but i watched in the wh32editor - he will not lie.  ;D

yes that alavet
i might have forgotten to change the type, but your the only drow, so sipax if you are able to change that for yourself then thats cool

after our battles with bembe (where i lost only 1 mage in 2 whole battles) we decided to test mercs in fights with Gharby. the problem with them that they dont have any real "special" unit, like elven archers/fanatics/flagellants/trolls/mummies/grail/whatever.  hovewer they're good in range - deadly canons& x-men workign great on flat maps.

hovewer tests showed that they flee too much easy. empire has flagellants, allied has "hate greenskins"" (so i guess its less possibility for them to flee agaisnt greeenskins), but mercs have no good meele unit which wouldnt flee after 1 attack of spider.

i propose to increase ST, WS, AT (1 of it by yoru choice) and LS+1 for ogres. also need small buff of swordmen or new unit as a medium infantry (prefferably). not big changes, as you see, but our tests with Gharby showed it should be enough.

Think adding AT to basic infantry is madness.

Yes we made some tests (first two against bembe then three against alavet)
I used his Merc armies and had my problems against goblins. First time I was just rushed on drakenhof castle :D and in mousillion it was a "draw" (disconnect). These battles showed that the Mercenaries have a balancing problem.

In the one against alavet I played first with goblins, then vampires, then Alliance.
With goblins I had no real chance because of the bad archer range. His Crossbows and cannons just shot me down ;).
Against undead the grail changed the result but I have to say: The cannons of Mercenaries are great. They killed the whole grail regiment...
And with Alliance he killed me by using "crying head spell" and his cannons -.-

So all in all the Cannons are the best units of the Mercenary (by protecting th ecannons with all other regiments so they survive until the end). But there is still a balancing problem: All other Regiment retreat quite easy (leadership 7. Thats Nothing Alliance has 8 and 9. The only thing they can do against Monsters is: RUN RUN RUN!!!). Without using cannons (like bembe does ^^) they are just crap because they can't really kill anything. So I would say that they should become a bit stronger.

i meant adding either AT WS or ST for ogres + LS for them. not a big buff since they're only 3 in regiment and not much superior unit by itself

p.s. bt check their stats:
(http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lc&chd=t:60,30,20,40,50,30,30,20,70&chco=00ff00&chf=bg,s,000000&chdl=Regiment&chls=2.0,0.0,0.0&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:|MO|WS|BS|ST|TO|WO|IN|AT|LS|1:||1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10&chxs=0,ffffff|1,ffffff&chs=540x200&chg=0,10)

they're so much suk. mayeb boost of +2 ws will be better if u choose it. or ST+WS i nthat case (if u dont liek increasing AT).

AT is very good statistic, dont think it can be compared with ST & WP anyway.

i guess making ogres the special unit for mercs is the best solution, maybe they should get fear or immune to fear

Don't Ogres already provoke fear by default?

No, ogres havnt got this ability.
Only units who has this "psychology" ability cause fear.

Btw giving Ogres Immune to fear would make them more suitable against Undead then e.g. Treemans (which are in Alliance).
Treemans always retreat after a few seconds and then die ;)... 1200gc wasted *g* (but against all other units they are great).

i never had trouble with treemen fleeing vs undead, i used 2 treemen to kill the grails last game or atleast 1 treemen while under fire from bowmen to kill the grails faster

So will there be any changes this turn?

You had Dice luck ;)

maybe but i would never have an allied army without 2 treemen, last gamed showed me that, i didnt use them at first, but after my capitol was in danger and i started to use them, i lost very few battles.

Yes bembe there is some changes to mercenaries

Swordmen +1 IN, +1 troop, +1 shield (like empire infantry)
Cavalry +1 LD (like empire)
Pistoleers +1 LD
Ogres +1 LD, +1 troop, +cause fear

i am contemplating a fix for skeletons, all other basic units have been given an improvement, skeletons now fall even further behind, as WHF can witness they die in swarms even against other basic units.

I dont know about vampires but necromancers suffer greatly from lack of ranged units aswell, maybe the UUs for undead needs to be reconsidered, maybe let the undead get ranged units as UU. Such as balista or scull for necro and bows for vampire

this is a big change and prolly wont be taken into effect until next game

Thanks, am I allowed to replace existing armies with the new one?

indeed you are

we actualy made like 5 or 6 tests yesterday with sipax while i was using previous mercs army (unmodifed) vs his drows, and they drow sucked badly. he won like 2 times or so, mainly on some maps which were too tight or he had really big hordes. ogres seems prety toughness for some reasons (or drows too weak? LOL), in the end of last game i nailed them with my 2 canons and 2 x-men regiments and only 1 ogre died after two rounds of shooting (even tho canon splashed near them, not pushed through them).

still we don't propose that changes shouldnt be used but just keep that in mind. w/o changes mercs might suffer from other strong armies like goblins or perhars vampires, and this shows how hard is to balance anything
also not urgent, but important note for mercs:
they need icnrease cost for cannons (like now it only costs 350 or so, need to icnrease for 450-500 at least)
also ogres with new abilities also should be higher in cost a little.

as for drows, now sipax totally dissapointed in assasins, and prefer to use cavalry instead of them. i see a problem there. my thoughts is to allow them Assasin as UU with terror skill (like grail) but w/o possibility having skrabash in that case maybe..

as for necro army i think giving vampire a bow would be disaster, since he is not that unit which you want having bow at all. he never should stay at the same place and one of his advantage is a speed & spells, adding bow to him will only prevent him from pursue enemy and doesnt really give any big extra value to him imo.

as for skellies i feel that they need some increase like maybe adding up WS or perhars MS?

btw, is there any way to modifty sprite of arrow or type of ballista? i wish to see some deadfull canomn which shooting with fire shells. should be awesome and fits for necros greatly.

yes to balance all is not near possible we do agree, each nation does have its strengths and weakness's, sipax you may want to ask WHF's advice in getting the most out of drow army building, WHF had a good run last game with them.
Its no secret that its their great numbers and immune to fear that is their strength.

assassins can like vampires not fight alone, but as they cause fear they are good if supported by infantry or cavalry

i spose that a slight increase in cost would be ok, the reason i didnt increase ogres is that they already cost more that trolls and less than treemen

undead tho gain very little advantage on capitol maps as the idea is, capitol maps may just as well hamper undead changes to win because they lack defensive capabilities and when its the point to give an advantage.

there may be a way to change sprites but way over my level

I will be away for the next ~2days but I think, that I will have no fights, so it shouldn't matter...

NEW RULE ADDITION

We have been using a counter-attack idea for a while ive now added it to the Game Book

Counter Attack
If an army is attacked before it has had a chance to move then it is no longer locked in battle as it will give a fast mover an unfair advantage. The defending army can counter-attack if it wins the battle and move into the enemy land. I will be marked by a yellow territory behind the attacker and the counter-attacking army will be placed on the border between the 2 territories.

i will be on vacation for 1,5 week since 05th of October and will be unable to play. Is it possible to give my armies to the temporary command for Sipax or anyone else?

Where do you go? :)

yes where are you going mr?

I can kinda tell the militia rule is not popular, thats a shame i think.
So ive made a new addition to the militia rule and added some more possibilities to the militia armies.
Ive added half-mages, they are mages with no spell book but they have 2 spells one of them being dispel magic, the other is a lvl 3 spell, different to all mages even those that use the same mage.
The half-mage cost's 350gc and may only be used in militia armies. I need to do a wee test before i can fully implement this but i think it will work.

Well I like my militia army ;)

to Egypt :)

dont like militia cause it mainly feeds enemy army. it might be usable to double attack or double defend as i initially planned to (and this might help with balancing capitol maps), but as a single force is only able to kill some few really pathetic destroyed regiments (like if nitrox will loose battle and grail and stay with x3 ghouls and wants to take depot)

I cant take control of Alavets armies. Maybe Nitrox can?

I leave this decision for Alavet and game moderator, Flak.

It will demand rather alot of time to command so many armies, it has to be one of you 2 who commands.
If you are ready for it Nitrox then i see no problem in it

For me, no problem.

RULE ADDITION

To simplify the debate about who can move where and when, and because we now have a high level of activity, the order of moves will be decided by an Initiative Roll of 1d100.

So now the move order will decide who gets to attack who first and who gets to escape battles.
When an unmoved army is attack and if it wins it can make its move. But if fast army move out of a territory the same time as a slower army enters then there is no battle.

So if I move quick enough, I can walk over the whole map without getting attacked, cause I'm faster and will always flee?

I really liked the old version:

attacks => moves => attack of the surviving armies => moves of the surviving armies

So if A attacks B and B attacks C, then A moves first to B and attack, if B survives it moves and attacks C, if C survive it moves.

Or did I understand the new rule wrong?

>>>if A attacks B and B attacks C, then A moves first to B and attack, if B survives it moves and attacks C, if C survive it moves.

i think thats correct. the another rule should be about moving through allied territory, since player with better initiative shouldnt get bonuses there...

ah I forgot to say: I hope you will send us all (http://en.dark-omen.org/imprint.html) a postcard :P

This is a strange rule Flak.
It's a good idea to dice who has to write his move orders first so players can't simply wait just for all other moves before they decide to move.
But I don't like it that there is now move priority. The one with most luck has then huge advantage.
Example:
Alavets (1) moves from 2-5-G to 3-3-I
(alavet has a higher number then me)
Ghabry (3) moves from 2-4-G to 2-5-G
I miss alavets (1) and have to fight a miliz to get the Depot, right?

In old rules I would block alavet (1) with my attack and when alavet wins he can move on Cholios Capitol and has one more troop to attack it.

i see your point ghabry, that is not ideal to be able to make a running invasion if a player is lucky enough

I like the move order roll aswell to keep player moving. The simultaneous moves are better no doubt this opens too much to luck, but we also need some kinda rule that will allow an army to retreat however the army must then get a disadvantage for retreating so it doesnt become costum.

If you move on your own land and do not attack any other land, you will have advantage in moving, like Nitrox had, when I attacked him. I really don't see a problem here...

yeah so this idea being good in theory is bad in reality

rule abolished! all movers go ahead

Old move rules with an update

Movement orders are posted and made official before the deadline, if a player fails to move any armies before the deadline then they will hold their ground. All moves are simultaneous. If 2 armies are both attacking towards eachother a counter-attack will be the result (look below). If an army is moving along a border either to attack an army or to move away and is attacked before it can finish its move then the army will have to fight the attacker before it can complete its move. If 2 armies are in the same territory in the same move round then they will engage in battle.
Retreat is also possible, an army that is not making an attack move and is attacked before it can complete a move, is able to retreat from the advancing army. A retreat order will have to be declared and the army can retreat altho not without cost. To secure its safe retreat the army has to leave behind a rearguard to be sure they are not being pursued. The retreating army is forced to sell 1 regiment and may not restore this regiment until after it has been in battle again.

Sipax was last active on 30 September 2009, 17:02:36. So its possible that he has no interest in Dark Omen anymore (or his PC is broken ;)).

yeah i saw that, he has been very active earlier so im guessing its more like a broken PC or lack of internet.
In either case after 9 days we have to get going, because i believe he has not voluntarily given up playn im not gonna remove his nation, yet atleast so that he still has a chance to return, but now Nitrox is suddenly in command of 3 nations and at war with 4 nations, thats not fair for him to have to do that much.
Maybe some1 will help us out just for a short time.

It's no problem for me

I have connection now.

good to have you back in the nick of time mate

please go and make your moves if you want to change what Nitrox suggested

Welcome back sipax good that you havn't forgotten us completly ^^

I think i will not ask to change Nitrox turns.
But i have question: whats on the agenda? In this turn "sipax" have to fight. Did Nitrox already commanded my troops in that battle?

No i'm not, you can still fight :).

No battles has been fought yet
since you dont wanna change any moves then this Battle Round is open for battles to begin guys  ;D

Sorry for the delay (i was unable to fight yesterday).
But i can fight today at 5-7 PM gmt+0 (or about that).

ill be there if you need me, do you want to use the Drow Militia?

Cholio+Nitrox: Come on, organize a time please and then play the first battle

when is alavet back, does anyone know?

hi, sorry for late repl, i came back on friday but have to go on travelling untill 23th of october.

thats fine mate
nitrox will command your nation until you make a full return

What player gets then conquering neutral land?
Or its just like strategy spot to make 2 turns with army on it?

yes thats about it, you also do remove the chance of a gang of trolls or rebels will spawn in the neutral land and attack you.
If we ever get anyone to be the renegade

You know, that we are allied and it's not possible to fight against me? so if I will win against Nitrox our armies act like every allied armies, which meet on a field?

If I understand the rules correctly, you have to declare war before we can fight, so nothing should happen!







Cholio would attack alavet...

Almost correct, the only way to do this is to sneak attack and commence a dirty war, where no ROW applies.

Mhh I thought sneak attack are not allowed anymore, cause this would make an alliance useless, but anyways, you don't attack me ;) Or do you attack me after the battle against Nitrox and I have to do a triple defence?

i more or less removed all the initial diplomacy rules and let it be up to the players as they didnt work in the 1st game

I am defending the territory if you defeat Nitrox my army will defend in a double defense vs a triple attack

I understand it that way, that no sneak attack exists in any way, so you have to declare war first, before you can attack. If sneak attack still exists, I think you have to attack me, not defence against me.

So let say the turn is as you want (=you can attack me), so if I will defeat Nitrox, you can attack me with a Sneak attack and you're a rough nation (if sneak attack still exists), you cannot make an alliance with any player and you can be attacked from every player... am I correct?

Otherwise we have a problem, cause if I win against Nitrox, who owned this land before I fight you? It cannot be Nitrox, cause he is defeated, and it cannot be you, cause I havn't fight you.

// moved to game chat

i see the problem with lacking rules in this instance, ill need to think of something proper.

But in this case there is one more issue,
I signed an alliance with Ghabry, Bembe and Nitrox in turn 1.
I never canceled the alliance with nitrox and i never picked sides in your war with nitrox, until now.
I have 3 allies at war with eachother, nitrox is not the aggressor and i choose to back him up instead of my 2 other allies.
So really i am not sneak attacking you, im defending an ally vs another ally, making 1 ally an enemy in the process  ;)

uh? If I remember correctly, then I moved to the UU and Nitrox attacked me...


If you stay on the field without fighting, then you make no sneak attack, but if you attack me, you definitely attack, sry Flak, but this is, if you fight, 100% a sneak attack. Declare war and attack next turn or make a illegal sneak attack and lose every alliance...you cannot interpret the rules in a way it fits best for you...

And btw. if I think about it, due the fact, you make a sneak attack, you lose alliance with Nitrox, so you will attack him automatical and the winner have to fight against me!

Edit: I saw some post above:

i have no real option anyway, i fear having to fight alone later if i dont make a move this turn and a retreat after my intentions are out would just be plane silly ;)

Weather my army gets to fight you i have made my move and we are at war regardless

I enjoy seeing how this conquest unfolds! The map is very interesting, and it looks more like a real war this time!

wtf. about rogue nation: being a rogue nation doesnt mean that u should declare war to everyone. its jsut mean that everyone can attack you without declare war or soemthing and they also can hit n run you and kill routing regiments. but its not an obligation.

at least as far as i understand it.

p.s. i'm travelling in Russia so have access to web but not to the game itself

I'm bit tired today so I would have disadvantages in the fights...
I will be available tomorrow for the battles, so lurk in hamachi pls ;).

ok im there & can perform some battle tonight or tomorrow.

Good to have you back

things have been a bit slow so you have only missed 1 turn

This is your battle this turn: 3-14-B EA2 vs Gob3 (host) at Great Forrest (vs Ghabry)

I will play today with Bembi, i was unable to play because i was in hospital

are you ok?

thats fair enough mate no worries im sure bembe will be there

Yes im now ok, i tell you on hamachi later ;) i had conversation with Bembi yesterday and we play today

After the vamps are nearly defeated, I will give my mercs to Nitrox (cause I have atm a lot of university stuff to do), he will win finish the conquest for me.

Good luck Nitrox

Thank you, if it's your last decision i can get mercenary army.

here you go Sipax

is alavet back 100%?

ive not seen him online for awhile now and he has battles to attend

Alavet wrote in the october tournament Topic that he has problems with the I-Net.
If it's a technical problem this should be fixed on Monday by the firm that provides his internet.

thanks

ive read it, ill keep an eye on him getting on hamachi for our battle

hope to play today, technicals should repair internet by the evenening... hope to be online at 20:30-22:00 GMT+3 ..

Just want to tell you that I'm quite busy at the moment.

So I won't be online often.

Expect me around 7pm-9pm (GMT+0) in Hamachi

Flak can accept peace but Sipax just cancelled an agreement we had last turn and attacked me, i see no reason this could not happen again. I can accept peace but will not allow Drow units on my land.

It was somthing like temporary non-attack pact. But we hadnt peace, we was in war. Additionally, you was on my way.

//i think both posts should be removed to game chat.

regardless, the agreement was violated, signing a new one when im in the way would not necessarily aid my situation

Wow, this (http://forum.dark-omen.org/dark-omen-conquest/conquest-battleground-t513.0.html;msg5397#msg5397) is what I call a war!

hehe indeed it is now nearly total war

i have a short spell of being busy this weekend, i work saturday and am going to a concert at night, sunday i work 12-16 but will be online in the evening.

hopefully will be avaliable today from 21 to 22/30 gmt+3

are you gonna use militia vs the empire? or lose the depot with no fight?

i have been contemplating making Hellfire sword free atm only grungebringer sword is

Nitrox just defeated me tho

1-1-D UN1 vs Merc1 (host) at Road to Bogenhafen
 Merc1 won UN1 disbaned


My Merc1 have defeated UN1


Merc5 had a problem with UN2 because UN2 is the best army of Flak (he sayd me this) and Merc5 is only 5k army.

I'm interested how Nitrox defeated the mummies...

That was easy :) i will tell you later.

i think i do agree that hellfire should be non racial, in the battles vs sipax its been apparent that mummies are hard to kill with drow, altho sipax didnt use many items and items is the key to kill mummies aswell as magic

when goblisn will be buffed a little? :) like items for scorpions will be really great cause even though gobllins afford to have a lot of items, they cant use it properly cause flee a lot. but spiders at least comes back to battle!

also i must say that in 7k army i usually spends about 5,5k using the best/costly combos possible. by now its kinda ok, cause after heavy loses i can get it back still (like, 2k for the battle + 1,5k for the reserve + 2k remainings = fresh army) but if we're ever planning to implement 9k armies i must say goblins don't stand a chance against anything. and simple icnreasing it in cost would be absurd, w/o icnreasing in power.

btw we've played with Gharb and i used my UU swarm and its actually just fleed away with the first possibility :). maybe buff LS for them by 1 more?
also it might be handeled like that: make scorpos able to use items, make spiders immune to fear (cause gobbos have big lack of moral). also i think gobbos should be a lot of beast based army, so why not to create some big beast like treeman (sure, worse than treeman :D)  but price him big..

btw, I want a tree with item slots *g*

And I agree goblins are really weak.
Alavets best chance against me is using fists of gork (if he get them) or luck with his monsters (routing the treemans)...

all goblins have LD6 now and Horde has LD8, problem with goblins is that the many monsters will make them strong vs humans but still weak vs undead. Its a tough balance. I think giving monsters item slots is a realistic option.

Ive been considering giving Horde immune to fear

maybe dont need to make goblins LS6?  im not sure about that... maybe only for some regiments? also as i said maybe it will be wise to get items only for soem creatures and fear only for some, so it will be balanced. also pricefor scorpions and spiders might be diffirent a lot if change stats as well

/can you plese give afile to dl?

alavet mate we made all goblins LD6 last game remember  ;) monster have LD7 as normal

very well i will put up a new updated file

UPDATE v4.0

Goblin monster can carry items, Goblin Horde immune to fear

Grungebringer sword is now an Upgrade Item. Hellfire Sword is now a Free Item, not a Greenskin item. Additional Free Items may be used at the cost of 1 regiment per item.

Also ive taken all the suggestions about the drow nation in account and improved them and made them more true to the  Warhammer Dark Elves. They are now a Humaniod and have all new units true to warhammer.

Druchii Nation
Light Infantry               5
Phalanx                       3
Skirmishers                  3
Reaper                        4
Sorceress                    1
Cold One Knights           2
Har Ganeth Executioners 2

Unique Units:
Beast Master                1

please eleborate. does it mean, that if you have 2 free itme you only allowed to place 9 regiments on the battale, and so on?

usually it willn't be much a problem for powerfull nations, but after i get banner (which i definately prefer to sword) gobbos will have to get hellfire as well by the cost of additional unit? its very tough decision. let this rule not to use for goblins please :)

that is correct alavet

and i spose you have a point for the goblins 9 regiments is wors than for other nations

Just wanna know that changed. To create new army more wisely.

Light Infantry               5 = Swordmen Basic Infantry
Phalanx                       3 = Equal to Glade Guards
Skirmishers                  3 = Crossbowmen with elven stats
Reaper                        4 = Faster Balista
Sorceress                    1 = Necromancer
Cold One Knights           2 = Elite Knights
Har Ganeth Executioners 2 = Elite Infantry similar to Wights

Unique Units:
Beast Master                1 = 3 Monsters

does this help Sipax

Next round will be posted tonight

wtf, does that mean that the crossbows can shoot as fast as elven bowmen?
This would mean that they would be great against all fast moving units (elven bowmen often miss them because of there way to shoot ^^)

no they have the same BS as Merc Crossbows but they have higher M and IN as normal elves has but also cost more than Merc Xbows

btw when will Cholio come back?

i cant remember Gharby avatar. does he have nothing before?

also: why you guys using this christmas stuff? isnt the christmas going in 1 month or so? (there is Russia we have christmas at 7 or 9 january, hvnt remembered; main holiday is a New Year, and a Christmas is just a reason to drink more and some religious date..)

He had "gigantic spider" avatar as i remember.

but we need to be ready for christmas alavet, 30th November im getting the tree ;D

i dont know when/if cholio is returning ive tried to ask when i saw him online but no reply yet

IN my opinion we should find a solution for this soon.

Kicking him would give us a disadvantage in the game (2 vs. 3)
But I also don't really like it that an enemy is controlling my ally ;)

i agree its a funny setup but what solution will you suggest

Only thing i see is to divide the land 1 depot each for alavet/nitrox/ghabry but that may not be very fair either

Well WhFreak is back so we should have a solution?

if hes interested

I don't have much time, really school is way harder in labour then previous year. BUt if it's necessary I would like to join.

i think that if you would assume command of the Blue Empire nation it would greatly improve the game, Blue Empire has been kinda zombie like in its behavior as i control its armies but cant really do diplomacy for it as we have been awaiting cholio's return but its unlikely he will return and I am prepared to give you full command of the Empire nation.

Let us know what you think

On the moment it doesn't look like I'll have much spere time, so I suggest to give the opportunity to people who want to play and have enough time. I talked to Wkurwiony last night and he want to play more.

thats fair enough mate, when you have more time dont hesitate to return

Why is my second army (EA4) spawned on the total useless italy capitol and not on more logical fields like a depot near my main capitol? :/
And the UUs are still colored wrong, I got the 2-10-H one since 2 rounds ;)

i forgot which capitol you used to i used both :o,which depot do you like?

I will try to remember that UUT next time ;D

I prefer it when units are spawned near my main capitol (spain) so the nearest depot would be 2-9-E

fair enough, i think thats where they use to spawn before you got Tilea,

just pretend it spawned there and move accordingly

Hehe! It seems like Flak is surrounded! Cool, im looking forward to results of this event ^^.

Enemy of my enemy is my enemy. :)

And I thought, the enemy of your enemy is your friend ;)

I will show you all what happens to intruders

Yes sipax is my friend in this round :)

all your mortal warriors will serve me soon with the dead legions roaming the land

RULE ADDITION

Re-Fit Unmoved Armies

The only way to alter an armies regiments and get new regiments added is to move it to a depot or capital and let it wait for a whole turn. At this point in the turn the army editor can be opened and new regiments added to the army. Good for when Unique Units are available and when a victorious army returns from battle with extra cash. The army however may only re-fit if it is not attacked by enemy forces, it needs 1 turn of no action at all even defensive battles.
Racial items can also be re-acquired here if they have been lost.
In addition to this an army may also reform. Reform means that an army that in most cases will have suffered defeat may retreat to a depot and Reform itself back to a 7000gc army. An army that does this will lose all its XP but it is allowed to use its new 7000gc to buy the Items that it was in possession of prior to the Reform but now it will cost gold to get them.
This includes all items, even from other races or extra free items that was used by the army.

One moment there are items that I don't have to pay money for?

no you have to buy the army and items all over again but the items you had you may buy even if they dont belong to your race

me and nitrox are starting to feel kinda alone in the hamachi conquest room, plz dont forget us :'(

It would appear most of us are very busy at the moment

Should we put it on pause until January some time or halt it altogether?

I just lost will for some reasons. prefer to stop untill january earliest.

I have holidays from 17th december to 1st January.
So maybe we can find some time there Flak? (before christmas).

And yeah I would prefare too to make a pause until January but maybe we can arrange at least some fights before.

im sorry to hear that alavet but i hope a little time off will spark your will to return

Ghabry im sure we can find a time to play our battles

we can discuss in january what to do

should we maybe finish this game in a mini tournament mid month in January or February or even March

what has happened to Sipax btw? anyone know?

When will a new game start, or restart the old one?

i hope so

lets find out

Ghabry, alavet, Nitrox and sipax how busy are you guys atm?
do you prefer restart or new start?

:D
i have laods of work last months so only what i have is that to come back to home and play some hour at HoN and then go sleep. sounds kidna retarded but that it :)
i lost interest to conquest due to a high obligation for play. torunaments is fine since it once per month but more is not good for me. from my side we an finish it at any holidays (better than working days) at mini-tourney  if you want... sorry for that

i understand, im also working hard atm so it would be a push to play every night for me aswel
i spose you are extra busy with with the russian christmas on 19th jan right? or maybe i remember wrong?  :D

i agree that a mini-tournament would be a good solution

well, im not religious at all so i dont care. you're remebered right, there is some christian celebrate now but not many russians actually care.

lol nevermind then

what time would suit you best, early/late month?

dont care, depends of other guys. only holidays, though