Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

Date: 28th March 5pm gmt +0

Playerlist:

• Daviwolfy
• huks
• Ghabry
• bembelimen
• olly
• Libertar
• Chinnico
• baggiesman1987
• Kuja
• alavet
• Mr Shadow
• DJLeBomb

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In Stage 1 and 2 the players play eachother in the groups once.
If players are of equal points in the the groups then extra games are required.
In Stage 3 the games are best of 3.
Bembelimen will be in charge of the random map, he will roll a 1D6 and that will decide the maps used in all games.

---

Mr Shadow - Daviwolfy | alavet - huks | olly - baggiesman1987

Mr Shadow - Ghabry | alavet - bembelimen | olly - JDLeBomb

Chinnico - Daviwolfy | huks - bembelimen | kuja - olly

Chinnico - Ghabry | kuja - baggiesman1987 | Kuja - DjLeBomb

baggiesman1987 - DjLeBomb

---

---

Kuja - Daviwolfy | olly - Mr Shadow | bembelimen - Kuja | alavet - olly | alavet - Mr Shadow


6th: Daviwolfy
5th: Mr_Shadow
4th: olly
3rd: Kuja
2nd: bembelimen

So we have a deserved WINNER: congratulation ALAVET

---

Ruleset: 5k/15 ruleset (id 2173) (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/index.php?title=DO/Rules/5000/15&oldid=2173) with this Point List (id 2174) (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/index.php?title=DO/Rules/5000/15/Point_list&oldid=2174) (thank you Flak&exe for creating them)
With original files

• Every player creates 3 armies with different races (1 empire, 1 greenskin, 1 undead)
• You have to use these 3 armies and you're not allowed to create more or use others.
• You can use every army 3 times in the whole Tournament
• If you have at least one mage/vamp/shaman/necro left, you have to go in close combat and from this moment you're not allowed to use any teleport spells
• You're not allowed to have more than 3 equal regiments (for example 4 Ghouls are NOT allowed)

---

Original Files: Download (http://en.dark-omen.org/downloads/view-details/2.-modifications/3.-army-lists/original-files.html)
Map Patch: Download (http://en.dark-omen.org/downloads/view-details/2.-modifications/1.-maps/map-patch.html)

---

Allowed Maps:

• 1 Road to Bogenhafen
• 2 Empire
• 3 Black Pyramids (all)
• 4 The Road to Moussilon
• 5 Border Bounties
• 6 Return to Axebite Pass

Be sure, that you have installed the map patch and that your armys fit the ruleset!

Hi all Friends.
Sorry for no conecction on foro this week, but i'm out of my home for job.

But i will be at home the days of the tournament, then Flak.....Count with my axe!!! ;)


Oh, about Horn of Urgok... i vote for forbid it....it make to DO becames in a no strategic game.
And when the last unit is a Wizard....well.....the same problem is when the last unit is a cavalry with the Banner of Wrath.
Well, really it is an interesting problem....maybe to ways to resolv each:

About the banner:
- Forbid the Banner of Wrath (no need battles where all armies uses the same item ever)
- Increase to 4 the cost of it (i think 4 is a really expensive cost for it and one player only will get it if he/she has any strategic idea with his/her army)

About the Wizards:
- Forbid to the wizards to use magic when he/she :) is the last unit in the battle.
- Player only can win a battle if he/she have at least one infantery or cavalry unit (Spiders, Ogres, Trolls, Treeman... too) on ground in the final of the battle.
I explain: If in any moment in a battle player1 has only a wizard in the ground and the enemy has any (not routed) infantery or calvary unit, then player1 lost the game inmediatly. (A Wizard is not a Powerfull and Strong man......the only way to him/her is run and find a superior possition on ground to die like a hero :D) (except if the wizard is a goblin...then only way is run as a hero :P)

After the last tournament people were talking about this. Some say Horn is needed, because you need something to counter undead's ability to cause fear. But those people are forgetting one thing...did any undead army win any games last tournament ? Undead was the least used army. Because its VERY hard to build a good army with undead. Their strong melee costs too much(black grail,mummies)and they have no cheap meatwall units(zombies are the worst unit in game and ghouls get routed very easily but they still cost the same amount as orc arrer boyz or imperial swordsmen).

So removing Horn would actually balance this alot and make undead armies much more viable. Otherwise undead armies need their point costs checked, like mayby zombies could cost only 0.5points. In other words I agree with you, a good choice would be banning Horn from tournaments. Increasing the cost will mean nothing, since everyone would still buy it: unless you have it but your enemy does, your chances of winning are very small. And if you increase the cost too much, no one will buy it, so you might just as well ban it.

Also there was talk about randomizing map selection. This is the most needed thing imo. There is no point buying artillery, if you know you are gonna play some plain map where you get rushed by orc army within the first 5seconds.

And what I said about undead units needing their points checked, there are some other units too. Trolls cost 2 points, but still they die against any regiment in 1v1 combat(okay not against artillery groups). Orc arrers are as good as orc boyz in melee, but they still cost the same amount.

The horn is only a problem because you don't have enough money in 5000 to buy items against it. In 3000 the Horn was not as annoying as in 5k because you nearly had no money and had to think before buying it (and in 5k you don't have to). And yes I also lost one battle thx to the Horn and only my Undeads had Horn (but without Horn I would have lost against Kuja who had Horn too imo).

Yes, Cavallry with BoW is a problem but the only cavalry is Pistols imo because the rest is too expensive.

I only used the Stormsword always because the BoW is already to expensive for me and I was often able to get the Banner from the enemy for free during the combat ;). And I hate it too when a stupid BoW kills my mage e.g.

I don't agree with this idea because it's a extreme disadvantage for a mage if he is not allowed to use Magic (guess why it is a mage...).
I play the following rule with some players: If the mage is the last regiment it has to go to Close Combat. And if you still lose against the mage: Your Fail, use a regiment with protection against magic (good against horn too, but to expensive in 3k or 5k)

---------------------------------------

Kuja won one game (with a teleporting vampire *cough* *cough*) and I won two games with undead against Kuja (no, I had no and didn't ran away because I had at the end also other units then vampire).

Except Zombies, Ghouls and Wights (I don't mean the normal-weapon resistent guys) all undead units should be able to resist the Horn.

btw, also nobody is using Wraiths because they cost 8 points (!) for a unit which can easily defeated with a charge from behind or Magic (Items). A solution for the horn would be: Fallback to 3k or increase it to 9k.

I Agree

Trolls are immune to magic (ok, sometimes :P) maybe this was the reason for 2 points. About the rest: Dunno.

I'm available.



The main problem is, that the 5k/15 rules are taken from the 3k/10 rules. So for example the horn: 4 points in 3k/10 hurts a lot, but in 5k/15 it's ok (for the result), so we would need an adjustment of the points.



It's a nice idea, we should thought about a randomizer.



I improved the 3k/10 rules (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/Rules/3000/10), so the units become more expensive if you choose a 2nd/3rd. I personaly don't like 5k games, so I would suggest to go back to the (new) 3k/10 or try 9k gold games with the DOST (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/Rules/DOST_V5) rules. (We have a newer version of it, but we have to add them first)



I don't like the idea of forbitting items/units either we play Dark Omen with different units or we play "Draughts" where every stone is eqal. Our goal have to be: make the good stuff (horn, grail, etc.) playable but it should hurt too, if you use it (e.g. you have to spend more points).

Eh and as conclusion: I'm in ;)

Yeah, as much as we would all love to, we can't Ban any Items.

                            :)



So I agree the Solution is Increase the Points Value for Horn and Banner of Warth etc. 


I also Agree, that when a Mage is the Last unit on the Battlefield, it should Engage in Melee'.



Please Count Me in, for This Month's Tournament.


(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1741/87114781.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=87114781.jpg)



                         :)

a very interesting rule change bembelimen, i agree that 3k was better and already balanced. I think that if you applied a simular rule change to 5k then maybe we could get it to work because i think it has potential.

As for the horn in 5k i think it would have to keep the balance of it being expensive in points, so 8 might create a more balance use of it.

The hard way to make a map randomizer is to put it into the homepage, with a random choice at each click. The mechanics of such an item i dont know but i have seen it on RPG sites in the past
The easy faster way, is to note the maps on a notepad with numbers for each and a new number for each round of the tournament, players can choose a number and get a random map like so

Crissburg Town  1 4 5 2
Black Pyramid    2 6 7 1

I'm in and the time suits me.

I agree, we should add engaging in melee with the wizard when the wizard is the last unit. I kind of felt bad winning against Ghabry last tournament in that way.

Let's see how Mika will change it (it was his idea for the 5k/15 rules, so I don't wanna change it without his allowance)

I am in for the fight.
I don't have enough experience to contribute to the discussion about the rules (maybe when I reach the next level  ;)), but I am in for the fight at any cost.

thats the spirit maybe you can claim Olly's spirit award hehe only joking ofcouse

So it seems, the 5k/15 will not be ready for the tournament, Kyppers Patch dito, so what about a DOST (http://wiki.dark-omen.org/do/DO/Rules/DOST_V5) tournament? (If yes, should we/I add the lastes version of DOST?)

yo I would like to take part in this months tournament please.

last month was really bad for me i didnt even have time for a single game and with the new rules being used I thought best stay out of it for that one.

cu around soon

I guess i will join this months tournament as well =)

Sorry, haven't been very active in this thread. If you find that the current rule system is lacking and have discussed solutions you're very welcome to update the rules. If you still feel reluctant to edit them yourself write on the articles talk page. But please go ahead and edit :)

We'll have a 5000/15 tournament, if we get fix the list till Wednesday, otherwise we'll use the 3k/10. So come on guys help us to improve the points.

follow me and help (http://forum.dark-omen.org/multiplayer/500015-t252.0.html)

What day should i expect to make my fancy draw friday or maybe saturday bembelimen?

it will be even better than last time ;D

i wish to be in in this tourney. im not sure about time though. 28th of march evening seems but am i got right that i have play for about 6 mathces or so at once time?

at mirc my nickname is: exe, at hamachi: skotty119

yes thats right, expect the tournament to take 4 hours to complete, that should be enough in most cases, i donnu if anybody else has noticed time in the past?

i mean, its not always suit (at least for me) to be sure that i will be "free" for 4-5 hours or so. maybe its possible to change structure of tourneys to be able it matched within 2-3 days, to make sure everyone ok to play and may play in better tiem for each other?

and as i said, i probably ok to play 4 hours or so at 28 march.

I think, it would be cool, if we have the fixture at least on friday. (btw. don't forget the wig :P)

And upscale to 1280x720 Flak (if 4:3 Video format: add 160px Border on left and right side ^^) to improve the quality of your youtube video ;).

Hi again to all Friends :).

Sorry for not appear in Hamachi in last days.
I supose i will can connect the next days.

Well, finally what are the restrictions for the tournament?
There is any important change from last?
Will be make Flak his standar video :) and join to youtube?

Thanks

im using my digi cam and if i film in a higher resolution then i wont have enough memory space on the cam.

yes Daviwolfy i am doing the thrillingly exciting draw again  ;D

I updated the first post (http://forum.dark-omen.org/tournaments/tournament-march-t235.0.html;msg1297#msg1297)

hey guys add me to this list :(

your added sorry for the delay i thought you were added already :)

After much ado, i have decided -Add me to the list!

I mean, why did I join if not to make bloody combat? ;D

/Mr Shadow

ok mr shadow your in

11 player, it seems I can be the substitution again  ;D

for once i think you deserve to be in the draw so i will add you to it ;)

The draw has been made, watch the drama and find out who you will have to battle to win the title

 ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gvx20VVZJo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gvx20VVZJo)

Great one ;D (should i mention, that you didn't shuffle the last egg? :P nah.....)

lol i know i noticed it when i was done uploading it but too late

Well, i'm back from the grave  :) . Sometimes life hits, u try to dodge it, u can't and then trying to solve the mess, u find that weeks had past, but well, like The Voice sing; "That's life".

Anyway, the truth for why i don't sign for the tourny it's not so tragic  :-[ , or at least that's what i say to me  :'( ; u see, i was really hoping that a friend of mine was going to get some tickets to the first "official" match of the National Soccer Team with Diego Maradona like coach  ;D ;D , u must understand that this is a very important event to all my country, well if u understand thats fantastic ;) because my asshole friend don't got it  >:( and today when he went to buy the tickets found that they where all sold  >:(  :'(>:(  :'(>:(

So, here i'm, crouched with one knee on the floor and my sword lying in my hands, offering my apologise, asking if i can participate in the challenge (even i haven't played even a single game with the 5000) and waiting for the sentence, like a loyal knight of the community.

Welcome in Group 3 ;) Good to have you back.

But I have to disappoint you, although you have  "la mano de Dios", Germany will become world champion 2010 ;D

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3941/d266fussballdiehandgottk.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=d266fussballdiehandgottk.jpg)


Back to topic:

I will post the complete fixture this afternoon, I have to sleep first  ::)

*update (http://forum.dark-omen.org/tournaments/tournament-march-t235.0.html;msg1297#msg1297)

Good to have you back Ignacio
now im even more sick that i cant play this month >:(

Ludi incipiant

Lucky that u don't sought my performance Flak  :P . But i will return someday!!

congratulation alavet, very good fights

Congratulations to Grand Master Alavet!

:)


Thanks to all 12 players, the Battles made Great Live TV!

Thanks to all members who assisted in Organising and helped enhance Rules.

:)

Grats alavet

Sorry for signing up but not being able to participate, and becuase of that causing kinda unfair situation for players in the other brackets since alavat+bemblimen got cos of me and liberta free pass to semifinals  :( But atleast it warms me I managed to play one game in this tournament and won it  :P

But cos DO doesen't seem to run on my comp/connection reliably or whatever all I can say is adios forever, gl in the future tournaments

Huks,

we never like to see a problem go unsolved

and since u managed to play 1 game, then there's

Real Hope!


Now that the Tournament has completed, I'm sure that

we can fix Dark Omen, for such an enthusiastic Member as yourself.


:)

congrats Alavet

glad to see and hear how well the tournament went ;D

ok sirs, tx everyone for grats; thanks bembelimen for nice organization (cause without it we'd be unable to know who should play vs whom) and tx every1 for participation.

i have few thoughts about improvment of it though, but i will probably put it a bit later.

as you will see. i dont desrved it 100% (esp. after my 4 Friday battles vs Flaks where he won 3 times of 4), but lets see how it goes:

1) my first match against huks: we chossed map Empire.
well, i can definately say that my UD armybuild really sucs.
from gharby before 30 misn to tournament i heard that most prlayers will possibly have rush armies so then i decided that i def. need a defending army. so every army has a lobber/catapuilt in that way.
its kinda funny, but i never tried sceleton catapuilt before:
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/screaming_skull_catapult.png)x1
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/ghouls.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/zombies.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/necromancer.png)x1
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/wights.png)x1
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/undeads/banner/skeleton_warriors.png)x2
p.s. well after reviewing it i see that i still have 1 point left, lol.

so huks had x2 pistoleters x1 flagelant x1 swordmen and x1 something else and maybe something else i hvnt remebered
my slow shit army was unable to do anything against pistoleters and they screwed me like hell. and my catapuilt never hitted, and i found that its VERT slow in firing. maybe like 1 in a roudn or w/e/. from other way it produces fear, but still not enough to compensate how often it miss (and maybe i need more experiments).

so huks owned me, gg

2) my second battle was about bembelimen and i placed my fav. army gaainst him on the map Empire.
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/empire/banner/mortar.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/empire/banner/ogres.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/empire/banner/bright_wizard.png)x1
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/empire/banner/grudgebringer_infantry.png)x1

bemb had grunt army with artifacts (so it was about 7-8 regiments) and my mortairs just scewed it up. 1st shoot almost killed biguins regiment, 3rd almost killed another regiment and so on. it was funny

3) my third battle was against mr. Shadow, cause we didnt have libertar and i automatically got to semifinal.
map was #5 (hvnt remebred name of it). at this battle i used my orc army:
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/greenskins/banner/orc_boyz.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/greenskins/banner/orc_boar_boyz.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/greenskins/banner/orc_biguns.png)x2
(http://images.dark-omen.org/troops/greenskins/banner/orc_rock_lobber.png)x1
(http://images.dark-omen.org/items/icons/banner/banner_of_defiance.png)

he had treeman, ice mage, elven bowmen and some elfes with maybe another ground regiment.
battle started with my lobber, it shooted about 2-3 times when i found that elven archers shoots at me from the place i dont see. i immideatly attacked it with cavalry and some bigguys; ice mage had spellbook and freezed my armies rather usually. from other way after my liquidation of elves i had a better ground (lobber there wasnt very usefull) and i managed to win battle with x2 orcs and x1 cavalry regiments left. treeman wasnt a big problem cause he fleed about 2-3 times during the battle.

4) my 4th battle was againt olly. i used my empire army there, cause it was very important battle and i rly think that my empire army is the best one. olly had ice mage, x1 pistoleter, x1 crossbow, x1 meat regiment and possibly soemthing else. map was #5. we both placed our unit on two sied of map, so there was some "battles of micro". mortairs was very good there but it helped anyway. other ppl say that olly killed his own oigre by his mage there - wel i hvnt seen that :)

5) and my final battle was agaisnt bembi again.
i placed my orc army and he made a mistake when choosen UD army (i think its very bad armybuild against orcs). map was pyramid.

he had x2 wraiths and x2 ghouls. well with my crowd it wasnt that hard to attack wraith from the back and kill them all. lobber wasnt good there as well, but at least he was possibly scared after each my shoot :) like a psycho pressure to the opponent.

thats all and i have to go now, give my additiona lthoughts later.

Congratulations Alavet!

It was nice doing battle against you, and what a battle! (I remember it well since I made several dreadful mistakes :'( )
The map was Border Counties btw.
And you are wrong in supposing that the Rock Lobber wasn't very useful, the first shot took out half of a Glade Guard regiment and there after proved a terror and nuisance through the rest of the game, an itch I couldn't scratch because a sea of Greenskins was in the way, and I didn't have nearly enough units to just go barging in, while that blasted Rock Lobber kept firing at me AAARRGGHHHHHHHHH!!!  ;)

That suspiciously cowardly Treeman wasn't much help either (and he was fighting orcs, what's up with that?) -I think he was betting the other way and threw the fight  :o
Well, atleast he managed to kill that Rock Lobber in the endgame, only to die "gloriously" on the hands of half a regiment of Orc Boys only a few seconds to soon... :P

A great game and a great tournament Alavet! I had a ton of laughs!

/Mr Shadow

Alavet you must remeber one thing about artillery its not that acurate, but it puts alot of pressure on your enemy and thus can cause the enemy to make mistakes because its a constant stress, "will it hit me" and at one point it will hit when a unit is stationary and it also makes it very hard for the enemy to use archers against you because that makes the archers very vounerable.

you remember my empire army with elven archers, that army is build on the same principal, elven archers arent very effective against moving targets, but they do force the enemy to make moves constantly or they will get hit, often the enemy will forget just for a fews secs and i can get 1-3 full shots at them, and to force the enemy archers into the battle and force them to concentrate on the elves who they cant hurt in a head on duel. My infantry has to keep the enemy busy and bogged down in slow fighting.

and you deserve it mate, its all about having the day and you did :)

i had the pleasure of playn quite a few guys before the tournament and i saw some good armies, some good battles and lots of spirit  ;)

Great tournament, congratulations to Alavet for winning.

Next Tour is my Turn hoho, the question is..will someone crush my group stage winning streak?

so my small sugegstions for next tourney:

1) maybe let it go not in one day but within 2-3 days or even more? i mean, i had to make only 5 battles, which definately not enough to say that im really crushing. i mean, for example in first battle i lost - and it might be not only due of my bad armybuild but also from luck or otherwise. maybe huks is the champion, i dont know?

to prevent it, i think we need to icnreasbe q-ty of battles, which might be reached by icnreasment time of play.
for example we may obligate ppl to play 2 battles agaisnt each opponent (which eliminates luck a little). and to get it we may set up tourney for two days: 1st stage (inital group rounds) and second: semi-final and final.

to get it we may make draw for example at 15th of each month and to obligate ppl to play each other untill 28th, where would be decided semi-final participants. it will allow evfery1 to play in preferrable time (except semf/final).

2) every finalist (top3 for example) should post his armies there to allow other ppl to use to invent new tactics and decide whether their points correct or not

3) maybe final should go for 2 or 3 battles?

4) as a reward, maybe allow to finalist to use their own sprite/mode/banner for their armies (with maybe standard characteristics. i.e. just change swordmen sprites for dwarves (special designed by olly)  but remain characteristis the same. is it possible?

3)

normally we plan each player to get around 7-9 battles if you have had only 5 then that is not normal, ofcz if people dont show up then changes can be made and players will not get what is planned its a shame but thats just what can happen.
The usually the semi finals and finals are best of 3 games.

If you think that someone has used more than the allowed pts then take a screenshot and from that its relatively easy to see, also more and more games are being recorded. I havent noticed any dodgy armies personally though

You can change sprites and banners, nobody will see the changes because except the army file nothing is transfered.

Dunno, last time there were 3 fights in the finals and semi finals. So I'm not sure what happened there, maybe time issues?

do you mean 3 battles vs one opponent? or just 3 battles fro msemi-final to championship?

about sprites i think its possible to apply it for all players (like mappack)

he means that the semi finals and finals are best of 3 games, who ever wins 2 battles first has won

And here are the videos:

vs. Chinnico (Border Counties)
5000/15 March Tournament - vs. Chinnico - Border Counties (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIpUSvBtWyA#lq)

vs. MrShadow (Border Counties)
5000/15 March Tournament - vs. MrShadow - Border Counties (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW9nUbGJG2c#lq)

vs. daviwolfy (The Empire)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApKJCWp4Aok (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApKJCWp4Aok)