Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

Welcome to OpenTournament, mates!

Why do I call it open? That's easy:
1) Tournament does not have a start date. It starts when there are at least 2 players.
2) You can register in the tournament at any time you like until the tournament is over.
3) There are no particular days when tourney is played. Instead you just find any of your opponents in Hamachi and arrange the game whenever it suits you. When the game is over, any of the players puts the result of the game into a Google Doc which any player can edit. This comes to the last... 5)
5) Tournament does not have a particular admin — everybody who joins gets access to GoogleDoc which stores results. So that you're absolutely free to play with any opponent at any time it's more comfortable for you and your opponent.
We could use the forum, but a collectivelly editable Google Doc is just much more convinient thing as a accumulator of information in one place (sort of a wiki).

Ruleset:
It is the modified (version 2.0, as I call it) Darmancer's mini tournament ruleset (http://forum.dark-omen.org/tournaments/darks-mini-tournament-t1072.0.html;msg10925#msg10925).
The army files can be found attached to this thread. Please install them if you wish to join.

Rules:
Every player has to play against each other player of the tournament. And he has to play with his entire army list.
The army-lists are pre-shuffled by computer.

Each pair of players must start with the first armies in the list. When the army is destoyed it is eliminated, and the player takes the next one (while his opponent plays the same, non-defeated army). So it goes from top to bottom. You cannot change the order or take the random army at your wish.

If the game ends with a draw — both players do not eliminate the armies, they add the mark "R" (Reserved) to it, and then they take the next armies in the list and continue fight.
Those Reserved armies can be used later, on the next iteration (if one of the players goes till the bottom of the list and loses all of his armies, he can go to the top, and take the first Reserved army to play with).

Rule don't play lame is included, of course :)

Registration:
If you're willing to enter the tournament you have to notify me, and send me via PM your google email (so that I could add you as the co-author to the Google Doc with all the data).

Leaving:
You can leave the tournament at any point.
In such a case the points your opponents gained in games against you are handled this way — we take the least amount of games you played with a particular player (if you played all possible 17 games against one player, but you played only 1 game against some other player, then we take 1) — and we take into account every 1 (first) game you played against EACH opponent.
So despite you leaving, your mates all get those points from a game with you which influence their total-score.

Players:
Jim
Deadman
kilowic
Darkmancer    ID 729378
Jeronimo
Olly


Armies and Results (in GoogleDoc) (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1NFw_F3CPCM3AcT9JdnIj04j-5mZneEo9mRFgINyGU0Y)

Count me in, Jim. The dead shall walk the earth once more...

Sign me in please. You should notice that most of players use GAMERANGER now.
Playing battles with every players of tourny with every armies will take a long time... It's good and bad becouse some can finnish earlier than others.

Glad to have you here guys!

Yeah, this tourney can take a while. But it depends...
If you're a top commander who can defeat all your opponent's 9 armies with your single one — then you can actually do that during one evening.
I find this long-term a good feature. We can have a lot of DO evening for a couple of next weeks.

And yeah, we will install Gameranger.

Upd. My ID is 2332541

I can't edit the first post :(
Is there anything we can do with that?
I'd like to add GameRanger IDs and player nicknames there.

Sign me up, also pm me any changes you want to make to your first post.

I would also to play this... mainly because of new balance made to previous Armies.

However... it's a pity Darkmancer forgot to nerf Jeronimo. 8)

Hahahhahahahahahaahahah :D nice one Jero :)

Don't think I gave up my plan to destroy you :)

Jim i dont understand why you and Deadman have more than one player slot.

Because you have to play against EACH other player of the tournament.
So you have to play a series of games againt me, Deadman, Darkmancer, Jeronimo :)
If it's not that clear to you, I can explain better.

Glad to have you with us, Jeronimo!
I'm adding a slot for you.

We're gonna have to play a lotta games, folks :)
I'm going to start today.

Jeronimo, Darkmancer, I need your google emails.

Guys, I'm available for gaming tonight.
You can find me in Hamachi and GameRanger.

(Unfortunately I can't log into the chat. I have java.lang.SecurityException)

We've got first blood, people!
Me and kilowic played 2 games. 1-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Wb5n-B0Rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Wb5n-B0Rk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96oZL7kmYWw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96oZL7kmYWw)

Great stuff, please sign me up!

:)

Wai, Wai, Wai, Vampire is over powered

Wai Wai,Wai

bang

oh hes dead.

Wai?

Cause Pistoliers are overpowered!  ;D

I made a mistake. Such a stupid Vampire loss.

Darkmancer why not playing today (but watching)? Hope to fight with you tommorow.

I'll be about just ask I thought you were just playing kilo.

Nope. Enough for me for tonight. Very tired and sleepy. And it's 2am already.
It would be nice if we could start earlier.

Hey... at Total Score I start with -8 (and havent even played!)
Is that some sort of handicap? :D

About open Tourney... is a good idea, but is not much different from "lets gather all together 1 satuday or 1 sunday and play games in a row. I think using double Weekend would be enough (2 saturdays or 1 saturday/1 sunday).

Otherwise you will find much examples like yesterday. Darkmancer wants to play but Jim is tired.
Connecting to Game-ranger all days randomly is not very encouraging. I would only connect on Weekends.

@Jim: Whats my army List? Third or Last one?
2parm: The Gutrippas army crashes the game. Can you re-upload it?

Vampire is not overpowered. Jim is overfrightened.   8)

Hm, I will be on GameRanger during the next few weeks  ;)

I think it was someone's joke :D
I already fixed that.


Yes, you're right. This is just a way to systematize the games, make it more fun, and motivate the players!


The main sence of OpenTournament is to give us freedom. We all live in different timezones, and we all are busy from time to time. That's why sometimes I find difficult to play official tournaments which are strictly scheduled.

The Opentournament phylosophy is this — when you're free and you're willing to play DO, you just open IRC chat and GameRanger, find other player and arrange a game. You can play 1 game, or play with your entire army-lists until they're completely done (and that from 9 till 17 games, in theory).


All of them :) (five, to be precise)
Seriosly.

Jeronimo, you have to play against EACH of your opponents with your pre-shuffled army-list, and kill his entire army list.
So in theory you have to play against each other player minimum 9 games (if you can destroy all his armies with your single one), maximum 17 — if you  destroy armies of each other turn by turn — that's how me and Deadman played our match (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1c5uSXD3eZH3drnRukPMkHVL3En9hCMk9d6hcDfoTvSk), we played the longest scenario (18 games) and even had draws. It's all documented, and voideo-captured). It took us 3 evenings to play.

So yeah, tournament is going to be pretty long. But if we all could play every day, it's not that bad.
I used to play a lot on chess.com, and chess-tournaments usually last there more than a year)
I don't want ours to last so long, but it's gonna be cool believe me.
Anyway, if we understand that there are just too many games, we cut the tail a little bit (let's say you play with 6, not 9, of your pre-shuffled armies against each opponent).



Yeah, I have a Vampirephobia since I watched the "Twilight" saga :D

@Darkmancer Could you please check the amry-build? Jeronimo says he has a crash with Gutrippas.

So Jeronimo, this is the scenario how you should act when you wanna play a tourney game:
1) You find someone to play with. Let's say it is Kilowic who is available :)
2) You open the Document and find the match-table of you and him, to see which armies you're playing.
Here it is:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/235256/weblinked/do1.jpg)

3) You must pick the first army in the list ("Defenders Of The Realm" it is). Kilowic is taking "Company Of Woe".
4) You randomly pick a map and play a game.
5) After the game is played, you put in the result.
Let's say you win.
So first of all, you must eliminate Kilowic's first army. Like this:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/235256/weblinked/do2.jpg)

(it is done via "Format" in top menu of googledocs interface).

Then you must add the reults to the main Table, this way:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/235256/weblinked/do-3.jpg)

As you can see, you put into your table-row the score of 1-0 against Kilowic.
And Kilowic has 0-1 agaisnt you.
You also increment your Total Score by 1.

This is how it's done. Pretty simple.

If you don't have the access to GoogleDoc yet, then all this can be done by your opponent.

Then if you want to play next game, you play with the same army ("Defenders Of The Realm") as it has not yet been defeated by Kilowic. Although Kilowic has to take the next one in the line ("The Gutrippas").

And Guys be very carefull with editing.
Let's try not to make a mess.
If a pair of players has just finished the game let one of them put in the results.
Or let one do his scores, and armies, and the other his.

hari8, so do we register you?)

I forgot to say the most important thing!
The one who gets the highest Total Score wins the tournament :)

I can play with someone in next four hours

I'm on gameranger.

Might be because there are 2 versions of gutrippas, if you have problems delete 1.

And by the way — is anybody else recording videos of games, besides me?

I'll try to record a few, not much hard drive space left at the moment thou

Jeros problem was he couldn't open the gutrippas to edit.  This is not a problem :)

Confirmed gutrippas work fine, there is a bug in the steam tank thou, i've attached updated army files.

Good, thank a lot Darkmancer!

!!! Everybody please update the army files!!!

All already played games remain in force, cause tha army contents did not change. It was only a tank bug.

Updated.

I'm ready now :)

I really like the new changes!
Tank is so much fun, lol

I got some fresh videos for you, boyz.

First battle is the best for me. God bless Loren and all of its inhabitants! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWtSTgz85MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWtSTgz85MA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDDBxrWmWfU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDDBxrWmWfU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8oG4y9Ylo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8oG4y9Ylo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1ytMRLSqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1ytMRLSqw)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veFPusYQZPQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veFPusYQZPQ)

How do you think about Gnashrak's Boyz??

It managed to beat
The Dark legion
Waaagh! Urgat
Defenders Of The Realm
Company Of Woe

Ok, last time lucky because of Mage-one-hit but the rest was pretty clear (I'm fighting Jeronimo atm)...

I havent't played it yet.

@Hari8, PLEASE, dont forget to fill in the scores!
It's very important. Before you forget.
And you have to eliminate those armies.

Upd. I see you're handling it allright :)
Good!

And I want to see more games:)
Guys, use CamStudio. It's free, and it works well!
It only needs about 5-10GB on disc to work.
Cause raw videos it capture are always about 1GB, even while it is 640x480  6-8 minutes avis...
But after I edit and compress those, they get to normal 75-100mb. Then I upload it on Youtube.

Are those two versions the same ?

There's only one difference:
The first army has Fanatics in Goblin Troops.
The second has Fanatics in Goblin Archers.

So you can hide those fanatics in one of Goblins squad, without opponent knowing it)

Actually I have both Gutrippas, and we had no crash.

Harold, I see you defeated Jeronimo's Boyz :)
Ahh, I wsh I could see this on video. I bet it was epic.

Yeah, we had a lot of luck - orc archers making mummies flee and so on...
... and we came to the decision that 8 regiments can easily overhelm 5 :(

So Jeronimo 9 me 4 :(

Tomorrow, u can find me 1400 to 1700 GMT+1.

Wow, you've played your entire duel-match. You and Jeronimo are hardcore!

4 points is good anyway. Hari8, you still have a lot of chances to fight for the first place.

No it wasnt really... I think DO was getting tired of my Gnashrak's Boyz.
Suddenly Hari8 a got bonus luck and his Mortar (he was Kurt'z hammers) made several critical hits.
I remember that odd ending... my Boar was charging and got frozen by a delayed Ice shard effect (magic lag).

Well Hari8, what a crazy amount of battles! :D As Jimmy said:

Jim, I quit Tournament. Redistribute my Wins. Thanks all for the games.

Im tired of many things... such as Ruleset Armies (based in DO), Maps pool (dice!) and Dark Omen itself.
Haha, blessed irony... I decide to stop playing and I reach my 500 posts.

I dont want to play Dark Omen again in my life.
I can ocassionaly return to play Fair Omen someday... who knows?

@Kilowic: This isnt because of you or anything. You played very well. ;)

Jeronimo wait. Don't make such decisions in a hurry. Give it some time.

You're still in the lead!
Why would you leave the tourney now?
I know how DO may piss off... but.

I hope you'll change your mind...

New videos, folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsttiXQebQs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsttiXQebQs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt-jQ21Zic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt-jQ21Zic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3-Fb4V4Mi8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3-Fb4V4Mi8)

Jeronimo that is just not nice of you :(
Yesterday you beated hari8 with the same armies and stuff and you didn't complain.
If you are leaving now in the middle of something it is not very kind of you.
You should think abaout your decision becouse now you are irresponsible and childish

Matches between me and jim from my POV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI7Cvbd9gXA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI7Cvbd9gXA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQwovZWIvY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQwovZWIvY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5xudJp-Tc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5xudJp-Tc)

@Jeronimo, I just understood that my system of distributing points of a left player works only if he has played at least 1  game against each other opponent.
But in our case, we all started playing in pairs. You didn't play with half of the players registred.

That means that if you leave we count down the minimum played games by you against any opponent (3 games) — and that means that Kilowic and Hari8 are going to have a huge ungrounded advantage in the entire tournament over other players, since they (and Deadman) are the only one who played with you. Other players won't have the possibility to play with you anymore.
That means very unfair conditions.

That's why I would have to change the rules, and we'll have to neglect ALL points in all matches played with a left player. That's the only fair way. But this would be so bad to Kilowic, who I suppose deserved those points.

So I would really ask you to stay.

The tournament just started. There's still a LOT of games to play. And great chances for all for us to fight for the first place.

Come on, this is only about fun!

Just flame about the lucky opponent and go on :)

 ;D "The Tale of a Lost Vampire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1w3-POi_o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1w3-POi_o)

More fresh games:

And without Ghabry's bot I found it pretty uncomfortable to shuffle maps.
So I made this tiny public service for this.

Dark Omen Map Shuffler (http://oskolkov.com/do-map-shuffler/)

It's great Jim :) thank you!

I've given Jim a list of maps which arn't biased so hopefully he'll update his program :)

Also had a tinker and managed to get the tutorial map back in the ingame list (easy fix).  After the tournament im going to combine map patches and remove the worst/crashing maps.

in the mean time more vids (me vs deadman):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZGpP0DPuGk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZGpP0DPuGk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mweNLHeqiLg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mweNLHeqiLg)

More videos (let's hide it under spoiler, cause there's just too many videos coming in, and they slow down the page and take too much space)

@Darkmancer, I've updated the web-app, thanks.

@Darkmancer, Cool videos, great battles :)

I see you guys played two games. But you didn't update the table in Google Doc (I'll update it now myself)
Please put in the results after each game. Until it all comes out of control.

Just fought 3 great battles vs hari8 (2 wins and a loss) then 3 super dull battles.  1 of which was spending 15mins waiting for spell point for teleport in and fire bolts at his catapult, until convieniently i recieved a massive lag spike when i teleported in hmm, turns out fraps starts a new recording at every 4gb which effects the record ie me but not the other player while i'm not hosting.

So 2 things learnt a) dont use fraps, and b) don't play lame rules dont apply to hari8 cuz hes perfectly willing to bore you to death so feel free to return the favour :p

@ Jim, actaully i logged into google doc and some1 was already changing it I thought it was deadman doing it thou.

Below only decent game i managed to get recording of:

What are in your opinion the worst/crashing maps? Great you could recover Tutorial, IMO important for 3k/5k battles.

I have detailed the reasons why I left the OpenTournament in a private to Jim...

I agree "Bot Dice!<1.02>" needs a revision. The List is outdated.

TBH it's quite a while ago i went thou the list with olly and it was a rough thing, but added a few new ones since (the sideways return to axebite everyone i talked to hated it :)

Here's the list of left in maps, axebite pass is an odd map but it makes a change sometimes.

Border Counties
Grissburg town
The road to Bogenhafen
Random 2
Axebite pass
The Empire
Great Forest at Night
Great Forest
Great Forest mod
Random 1
Sylvania
Drakenhof Castle
Forest before Kislev
Goblin Camp
Random 5
Troll-Land
Troll-Land (Hills)
The Northern wastes
Basin of Frozen Blood
Random 9
Return to Axebite pass
The Bretonnian river
Vingtienne
Loren Forest - Holy Shrine
Random 6
Loren Lake
Loren Lake (Balanced)
Loren Forest - Clearing
Random 4
The road to Moussillon
Random 7
Town of the Dead - Moussillion
The Black Pyramide (Sideways)
Tutorial

Ideally we could do with some maps bringing back, but they need revision.

I like Random 8, because gives a different perspective for battle. You cannot see enemy deployment, plus choose where to head your main attack, while archers shoot across the rock.

You should remove those who dont add anything important or different with another version.
For instance, original "Loren Lake". We already have one called "Loren Lake (Balanced)".

The only difference between both, is that the "Balanced" has One player's deployment limits extended.
Still remains imbalanced to me :), but is better than the original Loren Lake.

Please, reincorpore Random 8. Eliminate those Map Copies but which dont apport any innovation.

First nominations to eliminate:
1) Loren Lake (original) -> balanced version has similar deployments, being slightly better.
2) Random 1 (which is Great Forest Mod) -> basically 2 same maps, 1 slot wasted.

So that's the punishment you get when you break the "don't be a dick rule"  ;D

I would recommend CamStudio + xVid codec. Evern the raw source video it makes weights about 100-200 mb.

Darkmancer, now you have to explain me why the f*ck you decided to give an already the largest army of Gnashrak's Boyz (which already had 8 regimetns, EIGHT f*cking regiments with fanatics and all kinds of shit) a mage with Level 2!
Mage with Level 2! Seriously?
I just faced that army which despite all its HUGE number advantage had a Shaman with Fists.
You know what that means?
A complete massacre. Without. Any. F*cking. Chances.
Actually one shaman with fists could've destroyed my entire army alone...

That's no good, man, no good.
DO is supposed to be balanced, games are supposed to have some intrigue.

Gnashrak's Boyz needs Goblin shaman lvl1. Not Orc lvl2.
But anyway it has so many cannon fodder that it can do ok without any mages at all.

If I'm not mistakeт most of the games Jeronimo won was made by Grashak's Boyz as well. And Hari8 was really in bad mood about it.
So that's already an ugly regularity that one player gets this army and has a terrible kill-streak.

This army is really not from this league. And I just don't get your logic, when you were creating it.
When I played against it I always thought it had lvl1 mage. But lvl2... That's just too much...

Lets see where to start.

This is only the second time this ruleset has been played, I get little feed back (whineing between yourselves not especially helpful to me, i've many skills but im not telepathic), and what feedback I get tends to be hyper nerd rage, not objective thinking on the merits of balance.

It takes multiple plays to work out balance but I've already relised some side are a bit weak/stongbut I can't exactly change the stats as we go.  Now in the orignal Gnashshaks was underpowered and easily beat (as was GS in general).

Orginal Gnash:
Gnashrak's Boyz
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Orc Arrer Boys
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

New Gnash
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Night Goblins + fanatics
Night Goblin Archers + fanatics  
Orc Arrer Boys
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

Balance
1) Why lvl 2 mage?
Because most greenskin spells are mediocre/poor including an anti-magic spell, (plus no teleport :), with the exception of fists, however fists is a 3 point spell, requires melee with your mage, plus due to bugs quite often misses, so it's not exactly dependable.

2)Why 2 Goblins with fanatics.  The side was weak and didnt have a lobber forcing it to be a close combat side.  Generally GS sides tend to be weaker bolstered by larger quantities of weak troops.  Why fanatics?  Fun, they always add something, and often smash though you own side as much as the enemies.  In this tournament they seem to be beheaving, plus people seem to have forgotten how dangourous they are, a little re-education doesnt go amiss :)

This side is going to be nerfed, probobly by orc sharmen -> goblin shamen, and either a unit removale or unit downgrade not decided which yet.


Some of the other sides will be getting tweeks as well.
You want perfect balance use 1 army, and you'll still fail due to map/dice roll.

Funny thing, Fists were used twice today against me with Grashalks, and it worked like a charm :)
About teleport, well you know, I'm a big antagonist of teleport. I'm convinced that it should be, if it's technically possible, REMOVED from any ruleset, any mage, any race.
Cause when you have this spell it's like ...well you have a "play like a dick" spell, which you can use, and be a total dick, or which you can avoid, but then what's the sence of it?".
And we all have a dark side in us, so everyone would violate the teleport.
Especially it's funny when you have one mage left. Your opponent may have 10 regiments, but you still can force a draw, by teleporting for eternity. Why not? Why should we apply more rules like "dont teleport if mage is the only left".. I'd better get rid of the ennoying teleport magic. Or make it cost like 6 manas, or even more.
And even during a game — a mage that teleports to kill his opponent in the back?! No-no... that's not how noble knights fight. But dicks would do that.


What I would recommend:
1) Swap Orc Shaman with Goblin lvl1.
2) Remove Goblin Archers with fanatics, but add those fanatics to other Goblin troppers regiment.

I agree that teleport should be removed. Or higher "price".

Ok, I faced Fists again.
My full BG regiment attacked Orc shaman from behind, he used fists, and the ENTIRE regiment was gone. Just gone.

Darkmancer, you're still saying that "plus due to bugs quite often misses, so it's not exactly dependable."
Are you kidding me?!
I won't even say a word about a mage that doesn't flee after being attacked by BG from behind...
Undefeatable army. Almost.
You can defeat this "Boyz" only on pure luck.

This level2 and fists in every game just takes your last hopes away.

Not cool..

And it's my fault.
As a tournament creator I should've played with every army before starting, and I should have made my personal revision of the ruleset.
I played a match with Deadman using version1.0 of ruleset, and there wasn't any overpowered armies. Good balance.

I should've noticed that you accidentally added TWO regiments of Goblins with fanatics, and it made it unbearable.
But that just fell from my eyes.

Kilo, just wait until u can beat everything with these Greenskins^^

They definetly are overpowered. Maybe nerf Shaman and take one gob-archer regiment away (i don't now which one would be better...)

Fists again. But his ogres were too strong (why!?) and i lost because he could block fists with strenghening his ogres ;)

Nooo, that was not strength mate! :)
Your fists would kill anyone with any possible strengh.
It was an anti-magic shield spell. The only thing that could really resist fists effectivelly, as it appears to be.

That's what i mean, don't now the name :P

Edit: Ere we go it's called^^

It's called mork save uz.

Yes fists miss you can see it missing on one of the videos i posted actually.  In Black Proph where its a given spell, i've seen it miss lots of times.  Having said that it is best spell in game :)

It should be random wether he even gets the spell or not, has anybody not got the fists spell in jim tournament?

Hows it my fault he didnt flee?  He pass 2 dice rolls like any other unit would have to do in that situation, hard cheese.   PS using you best unit to melee him wasnt the best tactical move was it :p

There was plenty of imbalances in version 1, you even complained about them :p, actually he was already lvl 2 in the orignal so :p

Hey-hey-hey, it was my best move. I was 90% sure Orc would flee and I would get a free shaman kill. Even if he didn't flee, I would quickly kill him in melee.
I didnt expect that: he would not flee AND he would have fists. That was too unprobable. But it happened.

Actually I think the version 1.0 was perfect expept one army — The Defenders of the realm.
Now that it's powered by tank it's cool and fun to play.
But orcs...
You overpowered Grashaks, that's definetely and obvious to everyone.
And may be Gutrippas. I like gutrippas like they were. No ogres, two ballistas...

Hm, now it's getting to an end (8-7 for me atm), but now we can't fight anymore... :(

New videos
↓↓↓↓

Fine i'll knock down the GS mages down to lvl 1 but dont complain that they are now crap :p

GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,GS mages were lvl 2 in version 1,

Quote "Actually I think the version 1.0 was perfect expept one army — The Defenders of the realm."

well you didn't, reread this thread:
http://forum.dark-omen.org/empty-t1072.0.html;msg10930#new (http://forum.dark-omen.org/empty-t1072.0.html;msg10930#new)
where you discuss some of the problems.  Other people had problems too, as lack of fear immune and general GS crappyness.

New greenskin side are likely to be:
Gnashrak's Boyz
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Night Goblins + fanatics
Night Goblin Archers + fanatics  (might do 2 armies like i did with gut rippas)
Orc Arrer Boys Night Goblins
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

Waaagh! Urgat
Gigantic Spider -  immune to fear Night Goblins
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Big’uns + immune to fear
Orc Rock Lobber
+Troll -  immune to fear
+Troll -  immune to fear


The Gutrippas
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins* (either the warriors or the archers will have fanatics see note)
Night Goblin Shamen + lvl2
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Bolt Thrower + 1 B/S
Orc rock Lobber
Ogres - Fear Immune

I'm not bringing back dual balistas due to the same problems as the cannon - map balance.

I'm not happy with company of woe either.  I can't think of simple unit swap i like, i was wondering about swapping 2 units for wraiths (yes they are perfectly beatable without magic before the rage sets in)

Finally was wondering about warriors of sigmar, maybe lose the +1 b/s's and give them a low powered unit like merc swordsmen.

I know thaaaat :)
But lvl2 mage in an army with 7 regimetns is totally different from lvl2 mage in the army with 5 regiments.

And I don't get the changes to "Gutrippas"...
We have to leave the Bolt Thrower!
It's my favourite unit.
It's absolutely useless, but it's so much fun!
I love it sisnce it saved me epic game against Deadman and killed Volodimir:) That's why «The Gutrippas» is my favourite army. But you're trying to make it boring.

So removing useless unit doesn't make a lot of difference.
To balance it you just need to remove Ogres. And replace them with something,

The changes to "Urgat" and "Boyz" are pretty fair.

The gutrippas Need a fear immune unit so choice of troll scorpian/spider big uns or orgres.  And the Big uns are disqualified as they are already used twice.  Not really a choice at all really is it? :p  I like the Ogres the are an unusual unit.

I'll knock down the mage to lvl 1

The balista i'll put up to a vote:
2 Balista b/s skill 4, lose 1 gobo regiment
1 Balista b/s skill 3
No Balista

What's "b/s"?

Balistic skill it has a large affect on rate of fire and accuracy. 

For comparison skele catapult b/s 2, orc lobber b/s 3 (thats why orc lobber i so much better and skele is awful).

Most bowmen b/s 3, elven archers b/s 4.

Balistic skill has no affect on range.

I vote for "2 Balista b/s skill 4, lose 1 gobo regiment"
Two ballistas twice more fun! :)

Ballistas are useless. And why the hell you knocked down GS mage to lvl1? Make him lvl3 instead and get all ballistas fock out of the Guttreapaz. And don't listen old Jim. He's a psycho that simply hates all magical aspect of the game. Also make vampire lvl3 throwin' out some regiment. Bring us more magic mayhem!
The balance of armies is fine. There is no need to bring changes in it because of nonsense claims of crying pussies. Be a men! All these snots about disbalance is a focking bullshit. Let's not transform the tournament into an asian bazaar. Someone likes artillery while the others like magic. Let's just play, no more cry.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hm... maybe we just should watch which army wins how many times and furthermore look on results.
Look at Jim vs me atm: 7-8 -> seems like good balancing^^

My opinion to Gutrippas:
Ogres are strong, but I think it's ok to keep them. Maybe replace Orc Boyz with Goblin Warriors...

Jeronimo has been removed from the tournament  :'(
All scores updated.

After the update I appeared to be in the lead  8) :) ;D

@Deadman, first of all, you were whining about overpowered Gutrippas and Grashaks to me yesterday as well. So you're not only a pussy, but you're also acting like a dork right now.

Second. If you want magic so badly — go ahead, make your own ruleset full of magic crap, full of magic items (all of them if you'd like), and add each army two, or even better, three lvl4 mages. That would be so great! And then try to convince abybody to play with you.
I think I would even play such a tournament. Just to witness this biggest idiotism in the history of Warhammer.

I think I've made myself thousands of times clear why I think that there shouldn't be magical overabundance.
Cause I want the games' result to depend on opponents' tactical skills. I don't want games to depend on pure luck, fortune, chances and all this crap. If you gain your victory only thanking to fists and magic winds which bring you enough mana — then you even can't be proud of such a win. Cause you didn't actually deserve it.
That's it.

And I do like mages, and I can play them. But for me lvl2 is maximum. I would even prefer lvl1. It's enough for fun, and not to much for making the absolut difference.

@Darkmancer, I would like to give my apologies for being sort of rude yesterday.
It was not right blaming you for the disbalance, because the ruleset and the revision of it before the start this is all our collective responsibility.
Those were emotions, sorry.

Videos

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:) I managed to get Brotherhood's Vampire down - final result against Darkmancer 9-6 :)

Yep the Gnashrak's finished me off although it was the defenders that did the damage :)

Bah cursed camping Gnashrak's with Bolt Thrower and lobber, running everthing down with ogres and Boarboyz...

It was Gutrippas! :)
My very favourite army!

Hey Olly, r u sure you're going to play? :)
Tournament is going to its end soon, and you haven't even started yet.

We can eliminate you. And you'll participate in the next OT.
but you can still join us, if you really want.

My last two games with Hari8.
The final one was the best I had during the tournament.

Maybe a simple rule for situation like this is either remap, or agree for both not to use lobbers and both attack?

I got an idea.
Next tournament we can test it if you will like it.
When we shuffle the map for battle we could also shuffle who's attacking and who's defending.
I know that some armies are made to defend and some are made for attack but it could be intresting.

Kilowic, I don't like your idea.
On a specific map with a specific army attack equals suicide.
This game already depends too much on dice, so why should we make it even more dice dependable?!
I wouldn't force anyone to attack against his will.

My solution would be:
The current draw rule is ok for me. I would just add this -- if two armies which already HAD a draw between them get into another drawish situation then both armies are eliminated and players get 1/2 points each, unless there's someone ballsy enough to attack.
Yesterday I made an "all or nothing" move and gods of war rewarded me :)

Merry Christmas to you all and sorry but I haven't time to join this Tournament, as family still staying over from Christams till New Year but its been great watching all the Battle Vids!

:)

No problem, Olly, have fun :)

Dark, Hari, why don't you upload your videos?

Hey guys, want to notify that I might be off for a couple of days (a week may be) while it's holidays and stuff.
But will be back and will finish all my games.

I didn't recorded because of connecting fails :-|

How about this:

Highests rule overrides, both players in the same circumstance invalidates.
Balista and steam tank do not count as siege engines.

If your opponent has a seige engine and you do not you must attack.
If you destroy your own seige engine your opponent must attack.
If your opponent has a skeleton catapult you must attack (it cant hit anything anyway) :)
The player with the fewest surviviing crew on they're seige engine gets to defend.  (have fun reducing the men on your own unit :)

Hmmm that's interesting and funny rule :D

Very interesting, but isn't it too complicated? :)
But I like it.

Anyway it will trigger in very rare situation.

I thought so too :)

I assume everyone knows the fewer crew you have the slower your catapult fires.

I think it's worth a try^^

Do I choose my siege unit?

Btw, I'm waiting for Deadman and Kilo :)

uuuaaaghhh bad luck for kilo^^ Defenders of the Realm are crushing everything :)

We had a mirror battle with them and I was the lucky one winning the tank-vs-tank-battle :)

No videos of that?

I'm glad you guys are playing. Me and Deadman are going to join you soon.

Hm, what are we going to do now? Seems like the tourny is stuck...
We need to get up and finish the tourny!

Otherwise I declare myself as winner :D

No, we're gonna end it!
Jus enter the GameRanger and find those you can fight with.
Me and Deadman will be available soon.

Alright, I'm waiting for you, Deadman  :)