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Conquest 1st Game Chat Room

[Flak]

  5 attacks lol im sure that im not that dangerous

[alavet]

ow really? im not sure if x3 attacks will be ever good after you feeded +3k after battles with whfreak
its obv i cant win it with one attack and leaving you opportunity to refill dead soldiers i only have chance to win if i'll kill all your additional 3k regiments with my first 2 attacks

 with all that horde u have now i very bothered about how it will be possible to kill any regiment at all (cause if they flee with white flag i cant engage them).
i mean the usual way to kill regiment is to leave it 1x1 and then by the end of battle when remain regiment have like 5-6 units they flee and cavalry able to kill them in phase of pursuit, but if my cavalry will be surrounded with all of your horde there willnt be phase of pursuit

that means even if i kill lots of units but no regiments you most possibly will be able to refill it w/o much problems, cause ull get enough money for the winning.

thats the reason why i suggested to prevent refilling in case of x2+ battles in one turn at all


-by the way i thik we might correct max number of armies for the diffirient nations, if goblins will show their weakness. for example we might allow goblins have +1 start army (which will make sense if we apply "stop refilling" rule - then goblins will be able to kills with double atatcks many armeis and so on)

[Malus]

What´s now the exactly rule in case of a double/tripple attack?

Cause i have now my first double attack by cholio and i want to keep it fair by myself.

[alavet]

as far as i know current rules is that u cant refill dead REGIMENTS within x2+ attacks period. you're still able to refill dead units in alive regiments.

after u defended well u will be able to refill your army to the condition of creation army and buy upgrade items.
to get new armies (differs from you standard creation setup) /"free items" u have to refit your army.

to refit you army it shouldnt move within 1 turn at the depot. (seems like it might defend still)

[Flak]

yeah re-fill live regiments but you cant buy new regiments

[Cholio]

If i loose both my armies vs malus, do i get 2 new armies or just one? since the original starting armies only were 3, and i have 4

[alavet]

well my x3 armies were rather "easilly" (except maybe latest battle) defeated by Flak. and now its close to no sense to play game futher to anyone (even though i will possibly try to at least few other turns) - flak's army feeded i guess not less than +2k gold from my death + some artifacts, making his army worth ~10k gold + artifacts.

during this battles i never killed any regiment of flak cause they happily retreated (see my post below for the reasonings), which allowed him to refill whole army w/o problems.  it just showed up bad side of current rules regardign x2+ attacks, Especialy vs defending enemy (which have lobbers/mortairs/archers) cause while defending they can handle much less loses.

even though flak's army was feeded enough with +3k gold from whfreak defeatings (while he defended his capitol) i found its illogical that one army can handle x3 attacks at one turn and loose nothing at all from battle to battle.
and please note that all our today's battles was on "balanced maps", i wonder how it will be looked like if he was on defending map...

so my suggestions how to solve this issue:
1) to change rules of double+ attacks for the following: after defending side was attacked using double+ attack, this side is unable to refill armies untill the end of the turn (end of all concerning battles). this will take up sense of double-triple attacks, especially against archery/arty armies
2) another issue we need to solve regarding archers/arty is to increase their cost. i know it scares off, especially for elves while they cost 1,5k but i see no other way how ot balance advantages of "defending type" armies. i think each shooting unit at any nation should be revised and possibly increased in cost.
3) some other small "tweaks" for elves army" my personal thought is to allow only x3 treeman as max and increase them in cost as well (up to 1100 at very least; for futher details see my post http://forum.dark-omen.org/overview/conquest-game-chat-room-t361.0.html;msg2488#msg2488
4) maybe change re-fitting rules: now its possible to re-fit while you just non moving (and might fight) i suggest to allow re-fitting only in two cases:
- either army should stay one whole turn at the depot
- while defending its possible to re-fit but u need to stay unmovable in depot for two turns (and might fight)

5) u might think that i alway wants to "change balance" when i got owned etc etc but well i dont like loosing
i mean, if you have any other suggestions/comments regarding my thoughts; if you think its wrong, feel free to give your opinion.
sad to see that only one respnding guy to my posts is a Flak, and even he usually answers only 60-70% of my questions.

[alavet]

well i was thinking about it little futher and result was following: i think its OK to allow ppl to refill while double+ attacks (my "1)" point in post above), but there should be limitations as:
-after 1st attack (before second) defending side is able to refill alive regiments but by the 50% of maximum q-ty of maximum headcount of the regiment
-after 2nd attack (after second attack) defending side is able to refill alive regiments but by the 33% of maximum q-ty of maximum headcount of the regiment
-after 3rd attack defending side is unable to refill armies at all.
-rounding is standard, for example 50% out of 9 flagellants will be 5 flagellants
-its impossible to buy any items while 2+ attacks, except potion of str.
-its allowed to buy armour for your regiments while 2+ attacks, but you limited to buy only ONE armor slot during whole in-turn battle.

this will increase up sense of 3+ attacks a lot.
and from other side refilling is ok cause using it u will be able to mabye save of experienced units or survive after x2 attacks with better armies (like in our battles with flak with some luck involved (includign map choosing) i think it might be possible for him even win my triple attack with rules above.

though, there should be some concept regardign maximum number of attacks for one regiment possibly. like maximum 5 attacks or whatever. and mechanism of attacks (its possibilities) should be reviewed.


if you didnt udnerstand my idea, please see example:
imagine there is fight of goblins vs necro nation. goblins attacks and perfoming quad attack.
1st army of goblins consist of x3 goblisn regiments and they attack x1 regiment of skeletons and x1 zombies. goblins got defeated and after battle there is 4/20 skeletons remaining (and zombies dead).
-now necro is able to refill skeletons by the 50% of full regiment life, allowing him to refill it to 10 skeletons; but he cant refill dead zombies untill end of all battles (end of turn)
-then process second battle where goblins have x1 goblin regiment and necro uses his 1 regiment of 10 skeletons. if necro will win again, for example leaving him with x2 sekeltons he will be able to refill it up to 7 skeletons. and after third attack necros will unable to refil lat all.

p.s. and wtf i was very suprised by treeman stats. recently i played warhammer 40k offline with my friend 2 times so now i have some clue about how good diffirient stats are and then i must say that treeman is just a killer, especially against "super" units like vampire/grail/mummies - to hit they only should get like at least 4+ which like 50/50 chance and while im bad with rules still i believe it can be even 3+ to hit:


then i think we should limit em by x2 and/or increase cost not less than 1200

[Flak]

Big post alavet  

I have to agree that it was 3 pretty clear wins, i didnt really earn money from it as vampire armies have small potent armies which dont yeld much money. I covered my losses but only with 1k left after all 3 battles.
I also now dont belive that any single 5k army would stand a chance to defeat it.

I like the latest idea you have with only re-fill 50%-33% it sounds like a good idea, that you make it more ideal to make double attacks to soften up the enemy and not just make him stronger lol as you just did.

The problem we face with some units like treemen is that alone they are not reliable, trust me elven armies are hard to build up strong from the start with only 5k as many troops cost alot. but its noted

I think as for re-fitting rules then i think it should only be possible to re-fit after 1 unmoved turn if you are not under attack, if under attack then the army would have to stay another turn to re-fit. So they need 1 turn in peace to re-fit.

One idea i had to help more nations to "feed" their armies was to indroduce "militia" forces in neutral lands. My idea is to give every neutral territory a "militia force" based on the different nations but they will only contain basic units, such as infantry, archers and maybe a monster, but no mages, no artillery and no cavalry. When a player enters a neutral lands then another player will be picked at random to command the militia. Militia armies will pre-made and easy to re-create and use for the militia player.

ill comment more later

ps. I owned you too hard no matter the rules

[Cholio]

Malus, when we gonna do our battles?

[Malus]

Hi @ all

Today a want to say my suggestions.

Double+battles
I think it´s very unreal to allow refill after first battle in case of a double+ attack.
To balance this problem we should:
-allow only a double attack
-both, defending army and attacking army can´t refill for 1 turn.
This means the winner must wait and loser has the chance to attack this "weakened" army on next turn.
E.g. I defend my capitol and my enemy attack with two armies. At first battle i win with many loses, can´t refill cause there is a second attacking army. At second battle i lose. The enemy capture the capitol but can´t refill for 1 turn.
At next turn one of my armies is next to the capitol and í have the chance to attack the army at my capitol. I win the battle cause they were to "weaken".
With this play style you have to take a look at all your armies, to make a counterattack possible.
I think this prevent a rush like alavet and whfreak does.
Because, if you have no army on back or only one army, the enemy can capture the capitol very easy with a double attack.

Capitol rule
- if you lose your capitol you have the chance to capture a new for 2 or 3 turns, if not you are out

Number of armies
- increase starting armies to 6
One bad fact at conquest is the low number (3) of armies, if i lose my first battle the game is over because my enemy capture all my land. E.g. Grend got the chance, capture one of my army depot and so i was only able to get 2 and he 4 armies at same time.
More armies to handle, more tactic to play, exspecialy with new double attack rule.
- actual number of armies = capitol allows 3, first army depot 2 and second+ depots allow 1  
E.g. at start i have 1 capitol and 2 army depots = 6 starting armies
after turn 4 i have 1 capitol and 4 army depots = maximum of 8 armies
at turn 7 i have 1 capitol and 1 army depots = maximum of 5 armies
- every turn only one army can be created up to maximum of allowed armies
To prevent rush and fast rebuy of dead armies


at first, thats all, there are more suggestions too but i want to sum up at end of first conquest.
Yes i can´t say something to alavet´s suggestion because i have an other opinion.  


@ cholio
you have a new privat message.
I have time today and only in the evening.
I don´t know how many hours are between german and russian time.
Pls take a look at hamachi, i try to join it every times if i got time to play.
@ Whfreak the same i think =)

@ Flak
I think we need a special hamachi channel for conquest.

[bembelimen]

@ Flak
I think we need a special hamachi channel for conquest.

Channel: Dark-Omen-Conquest
Password: darkomen

[Malus]

Thank you very much, thats great!

[Flak]

also some very interesting points

i think possibly that limiting to a double-attack with no re-fill is easier make rules for instead of self designating loses and re-fills in between 3-5 battles.

I agree that 3 armies is a bit little and to make capitol allow 3 armies is a good idea

[bembelimen]

btw. Flak I give you kick access and right to change the important stuff in the Channel (rightclick)