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Author Topic: Darks Mini Tournament  (Read 8123 times)
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Jim
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 11:56:00 PM »

I think the set is good. I really like it a lot. Especially I like th way armies are excluded and you play untill you have no armies to play with.

I played a match with Deadman yesterday and today, using this ruleset (version 1.0)
The first 2 games were epic.
Especially the second one (the most epic Warhammer game I ever played). It's long (24 minutes), but it's worth it, believe me Smiley

Here are the videos.
1.

2.


Today we played more. And I found a lot of bad things.
But I'll write about it later.
And I already saw your version2.0 which looks much better!
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2011, 04:34:20 PM »

Nice Battles, always nice to see a fleeing wizard get shot in the back!

Smiley

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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 02:36:38 PM »

Is Deadman a personal friend?

I see you have many many videos about playing with him. Smiley

It would be nice if you both guys join next small tournaments.
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 08:19:57 PM »

The first two games were played last Friday, the rest on Saturday. It's the part of our pretty long yet very intriguing match Smiley

Yeah, Deadman is my friend, and he's a big Warhammer fan (all of it: Tabletop game, 40k, especially computer games both SotHR and DO etc.) and he actually is registered here. But he hasn't played any tournament yet.
Hopefully we're gonna take part in the next big tourney.
I also would like to start my own mini tournament, which would include me and Deadman at least.
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 10:05:37 PM »

Ok, I'd like to share some of my humble thoughts on Darkmancer's mode. (version 1.0)

First of all — I really like it. It is definetely good.
I think that giving opponents pre-built armies puts them in equal positions. Although the neccesity to play all of them in random order gives every battle the uniqueness.

And almost all the armies are very well balanced. Except some of them.
There are at least two armies (undead ones) which are extemely overpowered.
I'm talking about "Brotherhood Of The Shroud" and "The Dark Legion".

Let me explain.
On the weekend, me and my friend Deadman played a match using this ruleset.
The match started really cool. I won an absolutely lost position (thanks to my lobber) — it's on the first video.
Then we had a great second game which ended up with draw. At this point I was loving the ruleset, cause I never saw so much balance in armies, when really some small tactics mattered a lot.
But I didn't know that killing the Vampire in the first game was something very important.
Cause after the draw, we put those armies aside and took the next ones.
And I started to play with "Brotherhood Of The Shroud".
And I had a 4 victories-streak. I totally destroyed "Waaagh! Urgat", "Company Of Woe", "Defenders Of The Realm", "Gnashrak's Boyz" without any efforts... It was absolutely not difficult, cause "Brotherhood Of The Shroud" is really way too more powerful than the armies it defeated. Especially the Vampire, which can kill an orc-mage or a Necromant with a single spell despite the dispells his oppoent carries.
So first of all — I think the Vampire must be removed. He's too strong. And may be zombies without Fear are too cool as well.
So I'm voting for removing Vampire and swapping him with Necromant and may be some troops.

Then "Brotherhood Of The Shroud" was defeated by "The Dark Legion" after that.
And then Deadman had his own kill-streak, defeating ""Brotherhood Of The Shroud", "Kurtz's Redhammers", "Waaagh! Urgat". Every game Black Grail were just steam-rolling over my entire army. I couldn't resist at all. Noone could stop them expect the zombies wothout fear LOL, never thought zombies could ever defeat BG. So this army requires a balance as well.
May be remove BG or something...

And the last army I really dont like is "Defenders Of The Realm".
It's completely useless. No mage, no mortar... nothing.
I've played it against Deadman's "Warriors of Sigmar", and it was not a game it was a massacre. Just look at it (I know I was playing terrible, cause I was really tired, but anyway...):


My army was helpless against magic.
And the funny thing is that Deadman had almost the same army-list (Flagellants, Cavalry, Bowmen...). Except I had a useless Canon and he had Luther PLUS Pistoliers. So it all looked like a cruel joke to me.


That's it.

I saw what changes you're going to make to the build, and I liked it.
You're going to improve  "Defenders Of The Realm" with Elven archers and a tank — that's a good idea. But this army still is gonna have to work hard against evil mages.

I saw you making "Dark Legion" less brutal. That's good too.

I would like to start one more mini tournament based on your version 2.0 ruleset.

Could you please share the army-files when you finish, Darkmancer?
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« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 01:19:29 AM »

Hi glad you liked the armies, to be fair the balances were pulled out my ass with no testing so Smiley

1. Evil wizards - Easily killed off, random v.limited spell range, they  are powerful, but not super great.  Fear immune units are esp resistant as even if the wizard wipes out half the squad with a spell, if they don't run they are still an effective unit.

2. Cannon, was dependant on maps i saw it played extremely well at times, I'll tell you the secret of the cannon too.  Being hit by a cannon ball or having a cannon ball explode near you is well meh, having a cannon ball go thou your unit will wipe it out.  Don't think of the cannon ball as an explosive, you need to try and get it going though units, aim behind if nessary.  Don't place it firing up/down hills you want it shooting on a level if possible.  conventional wisdom puts cannons at top of the hill, in DO it doesn't work, look at your video, you cannon achieved nothing except taking up your time, it was easily seen, and easy meat for firestorm + archers.

That was a bad map for you but think back to when you played that map in single play, what could you see and what couldn't you see, you'd have been better placing you cannon to shoot units cresting the hill, with your archers at the ridge, the hill nullified his pistoliers ability leaving poor calvary.

On a side note one advantage you couldnt use was DOR have esentially 3 fear immune units, WOS only 1.

Having said all that we did find DOR a weak side in the main tourn hence the improvments.

3, BGK/ The dark legion, I was worried these were going to be overpowered, turns out they were beaten early and quite regular, it relies on fear to create a domino effect, it doesnt take much to stop the effect then its just a case of grinding down the BGK.  All sides have a fear immune unit against TDL its always key.

4, Vampire / Brotherhood of the shroud
I was considering nerfing however there's been alot of upgrades to the others so we'll see.  Never think of the vampire as a wizard or you will lose, it's 2 units combined into one, its a monster with magic, dedicate at least 2 units to taking him down.  The rest of the army is fairly pish, it relies heavily on the vamp to sustain it.  If there are continuing problems i may downgrade horsemen to archers, or remove the zombies.

Last thing to consider although you don't like/can't play well with some armies doesn't make it true for everyone, different armies suit diff people.  The videos are good for this, you can see better if its bad dice rolls or bad tactics or if it is a case of a weak side.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 02:03:38 AM by Darkmancer » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 01:40:55 AM »

* 2parm.zip (5.24 KB - downloaded 138 times.)
(proboble)Final army list till the next tournament.

Note
All units are now unable to pickup items
creature features and drarves are fear immune so not useless v undead



Warriors of Sigmar
Bright Wizard
Imperial Bowmen +1B/S
Pistoliers +1B/S
Merc Cavalry
Flagellants

Defenders Of The Realm
Knights Of the Realm +Immune to fear
Steam tank (m3, w/s 3, b/s 4, str 4, t5, w3, i2, a2, unbreakable, cant run over people, Heart of woe ) - change cuz some maps unsuitable for cannon steam tanks cannon has a shorter range than normal.
Flagellants
Elven Archers - Racial flag removed (Improved range, speed and fighting ability over bowmen)
Greatswords
  

Kurtz's Redhammers
Imperial Halberdiers
Ice mage + lvl 3
Imperial Mortar
Dwarves + 4 units (20) + Fear Immune
Pistoliers
Merc Crossbow


Gnashrak's Boyz
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins
Night Goblins + fanatics
Night Goblin Archers + fanatics
Orc Arrer Boys
Orc Boar Boys
Orc Big Uns + immune to fear
Orc Shamen +lvl 2

Waaagh! Urgat
Gigantic Spider -  immune to fear
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Big’uns + immune to fear
Orc Rock Lobber
+Troll -  immune to fear
+Troll -  immune to fear


The Gutrippas
Night Goblin Archers
Night Goblins* (either the warriors or the archers will have fanatics see note)
Night Goblin Shamen + lvl2
Orc Boar Boyz
Orc Boyz
Orc Bolt Thrower + 1 B/S
Orc rock Lobber
Ogres - Fear Immune

* I will include 2 versions of the gutrippas the first (top in list) version the fanatics will be in the warrior squad the second (bottom in army list) in the archers squad, you will know  where the fanatics are your opponent won't.



The Dark legion
Necro
Skele Archers
Skele Horse
Black Grail -2Units -1Wound
Zombies +immune to fear
Ghouls

Brotherhood Of The Shroud - As other sides been upgraded fine
Vampire -1M
Ghouls
Screaming Skull
Skele Horse
Skele Warriors
Zombies +immune to fear

Company Of Woe
Ghouls
Necromancer
Screaming Skull
Skeleton Archers
Mummies (2 wounds instead of 4)
Wights
Zombies +immune to fear


* 2parm.zip (5.24 KB - downloaded 138 times.)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 08:56:12 PM by Darkmancer » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 05:05:57 PM »

Darkmancer, you should give all armies at least 1 Wizard.
Replace 1 Regiments for putting casters on them.

+1 Ice Mage (Defenders of Realm)
+1 Goblin Shaman (Waaagh! Urgat)

Playing without being able to use Magic Points is really boring.
Also everyone should have basic Dispel.
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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 07:39:09 PM »

I totally agree with you Darkmancer. Your critic is correct.
I know I was playing terrible in that game. And I used canon in the worst way.
But it didn't really matter. Cause Luther was burning fighting regiments without caring about the huge collateral damage. It was a terrible henocide, and I couldn't do anything.

I really like the idea of a mageless army. It should be kept.
But what about giving it at least one anti-magic artefact? Like Baner of arcane warding. It could give it at least some protection from the massacre I faced.

And what do you mean by "cant run over people" while talking about the tank?
Did you make it unable to run over people? Why? It's the tank's best ability Smiley
Btw, how do you edit units' charactetistics so freely and deeply? I didn't know one can do that.

The rest of the changes to the army-lists are perfect, as for me.
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 08:46:32 PM »

Unfortunatly the tank running over people causes the game to crash in multiplayer (you get the same problem with the undead chariot).   So best I can do is give it a bit of melee skill, plus it explodes likely killing anything that attacks it so not to bad.

I used a program from Ghabry called wh32edit.  Its in the download section. 
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2011, 12:42:29 AM »

Can't wait for the next mini Tournament, when is best for everyone? Since Christmas Eve and New Years Eve fall on Saturdays.

Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2011, 12:51:01 AM »

I'd like to start one. But it's not going to be "too" mini Smiley
But it's gonna suit us all, I hope.
I'll post a thread about it in a couple of minutes.
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