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olly
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« on: April 09, 2009, 05:10:54 PM »

ABOUT TROOP CHARACTERISTICS in SOTHR Manual

Which may help us Understand/comprehend how Dark Omen works but there will be differences.



Each type of person or creature in the Warhammer world is described by means of a set of

characteristics. These characteristics are measured on a scale of 1 to 10 - the higher the number, the

better. A table giving the characteristics of all regiments in the game can be found on page 110.


The characteristics are:

Movement Allowance (M)

This represents the speed at which a regiment can manoeuvre, and is also used as a basis for

calculating their charge distance.


Weapon Skill (WS)

This defines how skilled a warrior is with his weapons, or how vicious a monster is. The higher

the value the more likely the fighter is to hit a hand-to-hand combat opponent.


Ballistic Skill (BS)

This defines how skilled a warrior is with ranged weapons such as bows or crossbows, or how

accurate a ranged war machine such as a cannon is.


Strength (S)

This shows how strong a creature is, and therefore how hard it can hit. Strength is used to

determine how easily a creature can hurt an opponent it has struck. The strength of the weapon is

also taken into account.


Toughness (T)

This is a measure of a creatures or a machines ability to

resist damage when hit. The higher the value, the lower the

chance of landed blows actually inflicting wounds.


Wounds (W)

This shows how much damage a creature or machine can

take before it dies or falls unconscious (or in the case of

machines, before it is ruined).


Initiative (I)

This indicates how fast a creature can react. In close combat this is used to determine the order in

which creatures strike.


Attacks (A)

This defines how often a creature attacks during close combat. A creature with more than one

attack can potentially strike more than one enemy creature in the same round (see COMBAT

MECHANICS on page 89 for more details on rounds).


Leadership (Ld)

This shows how brave and solid a creature is. A creature with a high leadership is less likely to

flee from close combat (rout), and is more likely to rally if they do rout. Also, all regiments with

a leader use his Leadership in any tests (explained below).


ARMOUR
Any regiment equipped with armour will be less likely to sustain wounds from hand to hand

attack, missile weapons and some spells.

You will notice that all regiments have an Armour Rating which is shown on screens such as the

Troop Roster and the Troop Selection Screen. These Armour Ratings range from 0 (no armour) to

5 (full armour). In the tabletop WARHAMMER BATTLE game each armour type has a name

such as shield, chain plus shield etc. The reason we have Armour Ratings as opposed to written

descriptions is simply for ease of comparison. After all, there are many different combinations of

armour which would produce the same result. For example, a mounted regiment with a shield

would have approximately the same protection as a foot regiment with heavy armour, making an

Armour Rating of 2. In WARHAMMER BATTLE, any wounds on such an individual would be

ignored on a roll of five or more on a six sided die (known as an armour save of 5+).

The Armour Ratings are as follows:

Armour Rating Tabletop W arhammer Equivalent

Armour Rating 0 (Armour Save: None)

Armour Rating 1 (Armour Save: 6+)

Armour Rating 2 (Armour Save: 5+)

Armour Rating 3 (Armour Save: 4+)

Armour Rating 4 (Armour Save: 3+)

Note that if a troop is mounted, his Armour Rating is increased by 1. Therefore the Armour

Ratings for mounted troops are:

Armour Rating Tabletop W arhammer Equivalent

Armour Rating 1 (Armour Save: 6+)

Armour Rating 2 (Armour Save: 5+)

Armour Rating 3 (Armour Save: 4+)

Armour Rating 4 (Armour Save: 3+)

Armour Rating 5 (Armour Save: 2+)



WEAPONS

Some weapons are exceptionally powerful and they give their wielder a Strength bonus in hand to

hand combat. This means that the wielderÕs Strength is increased by the value indicated below:

Weapon Strength bonus

Greatsword (two handed sword)+2

Two -handed Hammer +2

Mounted Lance +2 (on charging only)

Halberd +1

Projectile weapons inflict damage relative to their strength, as below:

Weapon Strength

Short Bow 3

Long Bow 3

Wood Elf Bow 3

Crossbow 4

Gyrocopter Bomb 4 (2 for indirect hits*)

Volley Gun 5

Mortar 7 (3 for indirect hits*)

Rock Lobber 10 (5 for indirect hits*)

Cannon 10 (5 for indirect hits*

Imperial Cannon 10 (5 for indirect hits*)

Doom Diver Catapult 10 (5 for indirect hits*)

Doomwheel 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 (For Lightning attacks)

* An Indirect hit refers to the blast area of the weapon, i.e. the shell has not hit the target but the

blast from the explosion has.

For an explanation of how Strength influences damage see COMBAT MECHANICS

on page 89.


EXPERIENCE POINTS
Experience points are the means by which a regiments characteristics can be increased. You will

notice in the Troop Roster that each regiment has its own number of experience points. These are

gained by killing enemy troops and they represent the troopsÕ level of field experience or how

battle hardened they are.

Experience points are awarded after each battle to the participating regiments who actually scored

kills. The amount of points awarded per kill is dependant on how powerful the enemy was.

For example, 4 points are awarded for each Goblin Sticker killed, while 28 points are given for

defeating a Giant.

As a regiments experience points increase their characteristics will increase as follows:

2000 Points - Regiment receives +1 Weapon Skill

(missile firing regiments receive +1 Ballistic Skill)*

4000 Points - Regiment receives +1 Strength*

6000 Points - Regiment receives +1 Wound*

* These awards are only given once, i.e. a regiment will not have received three +1 Weapon Skill

awards by the time they exceed 6000 experience points!

NOTE: Wizards do not receive the above awards. Instead, they advance through Wizard Levels.

See WIZARD LEVELS on page 95 for details.



PSYCHOLOGY

In addition to the characteristics described above, many types of creature either cause, or are

subject to, psychology rules.

The following descriptions mention various tests. These are not physical tests that you (the

player) have to witness or participate in. These are tests performed by the game, based on the

various TROOP CHARACTERISTICS. In the tabletop WARHAMMER BATTLE game

tests are rolled by the players on two six sided dice. For example, a leadership test is often

performed to see if a regiment will rout (run away) from combat. If the result is higher that the

regiments Leadership value then the test has failed and the regiment will rout. In Shadow of the

Horned Rat the computer simulates these dice rolls.


FEAR

Fear is a reaction to huge monsters or unnerving situations. If a regiment wishes to engage an

enemy that it fears, it must first take a Leadership test to overcome its fear. If a regiment is

charged by an enemy that it fears it must take a Leadership test - if the regiment fails the test the

regiment will flee.

For a list of regiments which cause or are subject to fear see SPECIAL RULES on page 114.


HATRED

Hatred is a powerful emotion borne of rivalry, grudges and irreconcilable feuds. Troops which

hate their hand-to-hand adversaries take any rout tests with a Leadership value of 10, making them

unlikely to rout from the combat. In the first ÔroundÕ they will also re-attempt any blows which

fail to hit the enemy.

For a list of regiments which are subject to hatred see SPECIAL RULES on page 114.


FRENZY

Certain warriors can go into a fighting frenzy, a whirlwind of destruction in which all concern for

their personal safety is ignored in favour of blood-letting. Frenzied troops fight in hand-to-hand

combat with double their normal attacks, and will always pursue a routing enemy.



COMBAT MECHANICS

The characteristics described above are used most often during combat. Note that the

descriptions which follow are summarised - the actual computations dont exactly make

interesting reading! You dont need to know the information that follows, but it will help you to

understand how the results of combat are decided.


CHARGING

When a regiment engages an enemy regiment, calculations are made to determine which regiment

is to gain the charge and which is to receive the charge. These calculations are based on the

regimentÕs Movement and Initiative characteristics, with an element of chance included too.

The regiment with the highest Movement and Initiative is most likely to gain the charge and will

get to strike their foe first as well as be awarded a Strength bonus for the duration of the initial

combat round.


ROUNDS

Once your regiment clashes with the enemy, the resulting combat is resolved by the computer

calculating a series of combat rounds. Each round lasts thirty seconds and during this period of

time, the computer makes certain combat calculations to see who is winning.


HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT

In each combat round, the front rank of each regiment in the battle attacks. The regiment with the

highest initiative attacks first. The ÔAttackÕ characteristic shows how many times each mercenary

warrior can attack in each round. When an individual attacks another, the Weapon Skill of the

combatants is compared to determine whether the attacker landed a blow. If so, the attackers

Strength is compared to the victims Toughness to determine whether the blow caused a Wound.

If so, there is a chance his armour may save him. If this armour save fails, the blow hits home and

the wound is caused. NOTE: Some weapons give the attacker a Strength bonus during combat.

For details of these see Weapons on page 86.


If the troop has more than one attack, the above process is repeated until his attacks have been

exhausted. Note that each attack may target a different enemy troop if sufficient enemy troops are

close by; this is particularly relevant for monsters, some of whom can have as many as 7 attacks

per round.


After a round has been completed, the total number of wounds caused by each side in the melee

is calculated. If applicable, bonus points are added for any regiments which charged the enemy in

the flank or the rear. Once it is determined which side scored less, all regiments belonging to that

side in the melee must take a Leadership test***. Any regiments which fail the test will rout from

the combat.


***Leadership tests are subject to psychology rules, for example Dwarf Slayers will never rout

from combat. See the PSYCHOLOGY section above for full details of the psychology rules.


MISSILE REGIMENTS

When a missile regiment attempts to fire, the range of its weapon is first considered to determine

whether or not it will fire. If the target is out of range, you will be told in the Text Window and

no firing will take place. Providing the target is in range and can be seen, a calculation is made

using the regimentÕs Ballistic Skill characteristic (with an element of chance), to determine

whether the projectile hit the target. If so, the projectileÕs Strength is compared to the victims

Toughness to determine whether the projectile caused any Wounds. The Strength of the projectile

is taken from the Strength of the weapon which fired it. For details of weapon Strengths, see

Weapons on page 86. If the victim is wounded he attempts to make an armour save, based on his

Armour Rating, to deflect the blow. If the armour save fails, the projectile hits home and the

wounds are caused.

Apart from the range of the strike and the fact that damage is taken from the weapons Strength

(as opposed to the attackers Strength), missile attacks are resolved the same as hand to hand

attacks.


Some missile weapons such as cannon also have a blast area, which can cause damage to a large

number of enemy troops in one strike.


WAR MACHINES

War machines can be prone to fail or misfire in one of the following ways:

· May not shoot - a minor fault prevents the machine shooting in this round.

· Disabled - a more serious fault prevents the machine shooting for the next 2 rounds.

· Destroyed! - the machine breaks up under the strain placed upon it and is permanently

destroyed.

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and back in Nuln, the ageing Graf Berhardt smiled his secret smile of pride whenever he heard the latest tales of his eldest son's ever growing chain of glorious victories -(sothr manual)
olly
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 01:00:17 AM »

Jeff Gamon
"With the first game, we tried to replicate the Wahammer tabletop game on a computer system. That made for a very good game if you are into Warhammer fantasy battles but a very clumsy slow and unresponsive game if, you are into real time strategy computer games. We've not thrown away the Games Workshop rulebook but we are certainly bending the rules to make them more suitable for computer games."


PCZ: Sept 1997

Did the Games Workshop team object in any way?

JG: No -infact they almost cheered when i told them that was what we intended to do.

PCZ: So, is Dark Omen just simpler then the orignal game then?

JG:On the surface yes- the interface is far easier to use- but there's actually far more depth in there.
There's a lot of glitz and polish but deep down there's an awuful lot of nerdy strategy stuff."


Goes onto say about now True Line of Sight etc


http://forum.dark-omen.org/tavern/new-dark-omen-game-beta-pictures-t278.0.html
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 01:22:40 AM by olly » Logged

and back in Nuln, the ageing Graf Berhardt smiled his secret smile of pride whenever he heard the latest tales of his eldest son's ever growing chain of glorious victories -(sothr manual)
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 10:26:37 AM »

Darkmancer recently showed me a great description that explains the Combat Process -

After all of the other phases are completed you go into combat phase in which the player who charges strikes first (only on the first round of combat, after that it is based on initiative). To hit you compare the WS of the fighters. if they are the same the attacker hits on a 4+, if the attackers is 1 or more higher then he/she/it (lol) hits on a 3+. But if the defenders WS is more than twice that of the attackers then the attacker will hit on a 5+.

After you calculate the hits you go into the damage calculation calculation part. In here you compare the attackers Strength to the defenders toughness. If they are even (say S3 and T3) the attacker will wound the defender on a 4+. If the S is 1 higher then the T then the attacker will wound on a 3+, 2 higher will wound on a 2+. if the Strength is lower then the Toughness then the attacker will wound on a 5 or 6 depending on the difference.

and finally for the fun part. Now you need to calculate the Armor save. using dwarfs as an example a typical warrior will get a 3+ save, this is because they have heavy armour, shield, and a hand weapon (which only counts for close combat). after you find out what the Armour save is you will actually raise the number depending on the strength of the attacker a S4 enemy will change an armour save from a 3+ to a 4+.S5 will put you at a 5+. S6 6+. S7 or higher you get no Amour save (ha! ha!).

And last but not least combat resolution. please just read the book 4 that one.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090427132444AAu5iA6


Smiley


Also from his research for Necrominicon, Darkmancer has found that in Dark Omen

Combat Rounds last 7 Secs

Missile Rounds last 14 Secs

Magic Rounds last  23 Secs

Smiley
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 10:35:28 AM by olly » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 12:56:02 PM »

good info! even though - isnt it a standard tabletop rules? seems pretty similar to Wh40k + some STR modifications to armor and better initiatie rule, etc Cheesy


as for round time - sometimes i saw that for example ud horsemen made other regiment flee, and HORSEMEN died WHILE pursuing. as well as sometimes if you beat enemy, you find your own regiment dead just like in 5 secs after.

its rare cases and i just thought that darkomen wrongly calculates combat rounds (which i thought is the same as magic ones) and results effect of ending battle, but not ending combat round.

or maybe its a special thing, like "dying from wounds?" Smiley

p.s. the most wierd thing i dont get in Warhammer game is that in tabletop as a turnbased game, one player should pass ALL game stages (as a moving/shooting/casting/close battle/) before other player will get his chance for it.

much more logical would be to pass each stage one by one by all players..
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 10:31:02 AM »

I will continue discussing game mechanic here following question about dice system used by DO in this topic (thanks for the link Olly!)

Olly are you 100% sure that DO uses six sided dice? It is a bit surprising since probability of 16% for any roll sounds too randomish for a tactical computer game, IMO. From other hand may be you are correct and that is what makes DO gameplay feels so fun.

In case if you are correct it means both SOTHR and DO completely replicates tabletop rules where single six sided dice (1d6) used for combat resolution rolls and double six sided dices (2d6) are used for moral checks and magic (AFAIK about tabletop rules)
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 10:56:40 AM »

Also from his research for Necrominicon, Darkmancer has found that in Dark Omen
Combat Rounds last 7 Secs
Missile Rounds last 14 Secs
Magic Rounds last  23 Secs

Smiley

Is the combat round calculated in the same way as in tabletop?
I mean when regiment A fights against regiment B - this is one combat A vs B with its own combat rounds, while combat where regiments C and D fight against regiment E - this is another combat C,D vs E with its own combat rounds too.
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 05:59:58 PM »

Good questions and apologies but it's been awhile since I last delved into the stats and game mechanics, as been busy modding other areas of the game. However, you are right about it using 2 six sided dice to determine outcome of Morale, Magic etc.

"PSYCHOLOGY

In addition to the characteristics described above, many types of creature either cause, or are subject to, psychology rules. The following descriptions mention various tests. These are not physical tests that you (the player) have to witness or participate in. These are tests performed by the game, based on the various TROOP CHARACTERISTICS. In the tabletop WARHAMMER BATTLE game tests are rolled by the players on two six sided dice. For example, a leadership test is often performed to see if a regiment will rout (run away) from combat. If the result is higher than the regiments Leadership value then the test has failed and the regiment will rout. In Shadow of the Horned Rat the computer simulates these dice rolls."

We will have to test for individual combat rounds to confirm but I will also search the old posts, as its probably going to be the same as Table Top.

Smiley
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 06:08:12 PM by olly » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 10:07:15 PM »

Leopotam asked the following question -> "i have a question about melee battle mechanics. one unit vs regiment of 16, 1 rank vs 4 rank - in melee fight. with warhammer rules only units in contact will be used for damage calculation, others will be kept at their regiment positions. in DO realization 4x4 regiment "wrap" 1x1 enemy regiment. question: all units from first line will be in fight or still 1-2 from standard rules? and how to detect - can we wrap enemy or not? "


SOTHR states " HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT - In each combat round, the front rank of each regiment in the battle attacks"


Devast3d says " Good question from my observations some part of a regiment is actually fighting in melee but not all of them and I don't think all 16 units of a 4x4 regiment will surround a single enemy unit this probably depends on a position, because I think if you charge a regiment which is already in a battle from the other side, then rear units will begin to fight with 2nd attacking regiment"
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 10:17:52 PM by olly » Logged

and back in Nuln, the ageing Graf Berhardt smiled his secret smile of pride whenever he heard the latest tales of his eldest son's ever growing chain of glorious victories -(sothr manual)
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 09:39:59 PM »

My Observations for DO: Straightforward logic "sprite swinging weapons=>unit taking part in melee" seems to work properly. Based on merely my own rich experience about who was swinging who was not, who gained experience in the end, who did not etc.

SOTHR: I do not quite remember as it has been a while. But probably something similar.
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 12:17:38 PM »


Combat Rounds last 7 Secs


Can't confirm this. In my test so far combat round was 24 seconds (most of the time). I measured it by the time between death of models which was consistent in my case (but 2 times it varied from 24 to 28 seconds).
It was matched with the duration cycle of Ld test which I identify as "stay firm men" event by unit with unbreakable ability.
There are time delay between Model death event and Ld test event which varies from combat to combat but has equal cycle duration for each particular combat. 
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 05:40:49 PM »

Good progress with comparing how Dark Omen adheres to the Warhammer 4th Edition Rule books

http://forum.dark-omen.org/tavern/warhammer-table-top-rule-books-t367.0.html

« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 05:47:23 PM by olly » Logged

and back in Nuln, the ageing Graf Berhardt smiled his secret smile of pride whenever he heard the latest tales of his eldest son's ever growing chain of glorious victories -(sothr manual)
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