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Author Topic: Wizzards have to make Suicide?  (Read 10510 times)
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tovertrut
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2009, 04:32:53 PM »

i think the 3rounds before getting forced into melee is great idea(or it seems a good thing to me)cause just having to suicide is rather dull and getting killed over 10minutes by a mage that teleports away every time u corner him is just as lame.i dont agree on making bright wizard cost more then other mages...his burning skull skill is very powerfull but bright wizard is easely killed and u need luck to get the right skills,if u get a fireball and tp skill ur screwed :p
and ive seen the ice mage be at least as destructive with ice shards and wind of cold.and to some undead that fall apart when fleeing he is a complete killer with his hawks of miska skill.

and im not sure on how the rules r atm but i would think if this gets taken into rules that in those 3 rounds the mage also is not alowed to teleport or charge to flee(charge to flee also not allowed for pistoliers then)? or can he teleport/fleecharge for 3rounds before bein forced into melee?
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Ghabry
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2009, 04:40:59 PM »

hm, the Dark Omen Player Westwoodboy (havn't seen him in the forum for a while but often talk with him in ICQ) has posted a video that shows the same problems (but only the beginnign of it). At the end the enemy had a necromancer with Teleport which killed his entire army in 20min (ok, enemy lost because he was bored after 20min but he could have won by doing this tactic).
And I know that this is a 9k or whatever fight.

Dark omen Lan btel -3- TRAINING vs. PerseusLQ | LQ+ | HQ | by Aeva



OT: And why is the Undead Chariot (he used the Undead-army from the Advent Calendar I created) not crashing the game? Maybe because it was in LAN so it doesn't desync so easy? Dunno...

I agree with the Spell Cycle rule that you have to attack after ca. 3 Spell cycles passed (one cycle takes 30sec, correct?)
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bembelimen
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2009, 07:40:05 PM »

We have two "groups" here: one who want the rule with "last mage have to go to cc" and one with "last mage can teleport ass long as he want".

My opinion didn't change: This rule shouldn't be related to the 5000/15 ruleset because this "mage problem" is a global problem and not a 5k/15 problem. Neither allowing teleport nor deny it will make the 5k/15 more playable, so I think, we should make some "global" guidelines How a player should act in multiplayer. Let's create them together, feel free to post in the discussion thread, a mod will move the suggestion to the original one (so the original one will not be to long).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 10:33:23 PM by Ghabry, Reason: war mal so frei die url-tags zu fixen » Logged



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Crusoe
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2009, 10:51:16 PM »

OMG i read this after the "how to act..."

so i did it well !!

....come on, neutral solutions!!

"bendito sea este foro"
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Wesstwoodboy1993
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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 08:57:34 PM »

i dont know how i to send this massage ....
(i cant good speack english)

-i have a rule for mages i and my friends do this rule in any matches

if your mage has a teleport spell he can used only in the deploy zone Only!!

this rule funktional good we think ^^

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Ghabry
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 09:19:19 PM »

Right I remember. Wesstwoodboy told me about it a while ago.
The problem with the rule is that you have to remember where the deployment zone was Wink
Your mage is only allowed to teleport to the Deployment zone so if you want to attack with the mage you have to walk to him and if you are in trouble you can tele back to the deplzone.
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 01:15:56 AM »

Hello. Im Jeronimo.

Im thinking in this moment... WHO... yes, WHO has the idea of making Wizards suicide?

I know about "hit and run" tactic. I have made it, and other have made it to me.
A Rule must be done, prices must be changed, but... Suicide? Makes me believe you consider this tactic as a problem without solution. For god sake... Was neccesary to reach that far?
Remember that here you are also dooming Wizards without Teleport.

I used my creativity to make a "more logical" rule to these situations (New behaviour + Costs changed in FO Mod)
My suggestion is posted in the "FO Tournament" Topic.
Take a look if you are interested.  Wink
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ito maquiesves
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2009, 11:25:14 AM »

Time to post "IMO" Wink

I really dont see a point of this discussion... From one side i see players who want to cancel "mage hit and run" restriction and made some other penalties. That makes some sence. From the other side - players who... misreaded "how to act" topic? Well it goes like this:
"Don't play lame. That means, don't play run&hide&teleport games with your last regiment, if your opponent defeats all other units and is clearly better."
  IMO that means if u r standing against half an army with ur single mage - no doubt, u lost. Yes, u can teleport\hit\teleport but thats rediculous - YOU ARE CLEARLY LOST IT TACTICALY. So there is nothing wrong to send ur mage in a suicidal attack in that case. And if ur last standing man is a mage and ur oponent has 1 regiment of mumies or any other 1-2 regiments why should u give up? Teleport is a mage strong point and u should use it! Its as rediculous as a rule that archers can't shoot and cavalry can't charge...
  Besides:
- The game balance made mages the primary target. You can't eliminate them early? Time to pay. Don't tell me its impossible.
- There are lots of ways to counter lonely mage with teleport (banner, shield, ur mage at last). Can't keep your archers with spell eater shild (or something like that) to the finale fase of the battle? Well thats a tactical disadvantage of the strategy don't ya think?
- Player who takes a mage (and hopes to make a hit&run tactic at the end) gambles! The teleport is NOT the obviously part of mage's (esp.lvl1) magic book.
  The same i think goes to pistoliers... So i think the rule says fair and clearly - you totaly crushed opponent's army - you won the battle.
 P.S. Oh and don't forget that u can spend 30 seconds to discuss mage behaviour b4 the battle.

Thanx 4 your attention. Good evening.  
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alavet
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2009, 12:22:50 PM »

Quote
if u r standing against half an army with ur single mage - no doubt, u lost.
whole problem is there.
some players just think that even if they play against half army with lone mage, they're not lost, unless mage died.
like when i had 4 ud tropps vs lone necromancer, he didnt gave up and continiued fight (with dancing swords spell, so it wasnt much hard for him)
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Cirroz
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2009, 01:36:03 PM »

Quote
i had 4 ud tropps vs lone necromancer
Flawless viktory hehe
Well that depend on honesty of the player. If he wanted a challenge of his skills or just a viktory (Pirrhic victory i must add). The same goes to rulesets. Situation:
You decided to play 3000/10 ruleset. Your oponent creates an army using 9000/10. Extra gold he spends to buy high level units and give them extra armour. You never know what hit ya. No way to check it.
So here comes the same statement - how honestly your oponent want to play.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 01:53:56 PM by Cirroz » Logged
Flak
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2009, 01:50:53 PM »

I agree with what Cirroz is sayn

one of the strengths of a mage is the hit and run that they do even when the armies first clash. Mages avoid combat and they mostly end up fighting other mages with spell or archers, if the archers/mage fail to kill the mage then dont expect him to suddenly start going into single combat.

Its rare in my own battles that a mage survives as killing the mage is half a victory, if i fail to then ive half-lost
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alavet
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2009, 03:53:10 PM »

OT: btw its possible to see enemy armies. check bembe/gharby threads (or ask them directly). game saves enemy armies in some temp directory.
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Flak
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2009, 04:12:00 PM »

yes in C:windows/temp

player0 and player1 files hold yours and the enemy from the last battle
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"Evil Turns upon it self" -- Paladine
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2009, 05:30:11 PM »

Hm, strange discussion up here.
We all know very well that hit'n'run is a weapon of a truly mass destruction — yes, we all passed the final mission of the Campaign, and we all slayed tons and tons of mummies, plus skeletons and Dread King himself, basically using hit'n'run.
It's ok for the Campaign. But this can totally kill the whole interest in playing Multiplayer games.

What can we do to prevent players from using this «unfair» tactic?
First of all — I think that creators of the game have made all the conditions for this «bug». Yes, it's a conceptual «bug» and a huge one.
If creators of the game wanted to make the multiplayer fair, (except the correct costs of regiments of course, hehe), they would have to restrict the teleport (no teleport at all in multiplayer games), and the speed of Vampire. May be no Vampire at all too.

Don't say me, please, that if my 5-10 regiments are destroyed by a single Vampire who sneaks with teleport all over the map and runs faster than any horse can, that this is a disadvantage of my army. Cause this is bullshit.
Army can be either one that can fight other normal armies, or the one that is only created to hunt the hit'n'running Vampire, but in such a case it will probably suck against normal «regiment»-based army.

As for me, the the rule that forces the mage to go cc if he's only one left — the best practice. And it should be kept.

Let this be our own Warhammer Bushido, a code of noble behaviour.
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bembelimen
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« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2009, 06:21:44 PM »

"Don't play lame. That means, don't play run&hide&teleport games with your last regiment, if your opponent defeats all other units and is clearly better."

Thank you, that's exactly what it means. We don't want to force people to play with our rules (outside of the monthly tournaments ofc Wink), they can decide itself, if they want or not. And as its name says, this are gentlemen rules. We don't say "You're not allowed to smoke", we say: "If you wanna act fair, don't smoke" (to take a real life example)
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"Sir we are surrounded!!!" "Excellent, then we can attack in any direction."
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