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Author Topic: Fair Omen awaits you here  (Read 14889 times)
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lordbraprus
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« on: September 21, 2009, 06:13:44 AM »

[Jeronimo] HERE is Fair Omen. Read installation and Doc File. Dont be Lazytown.

INSTALLATION

First of all, extract files where Dark Omen is installed.
For not losing Original DO values, my ZIP has brings a carpet named “DO_Backup”.

Overwrite carpet "2parm" from GameData with the new "2parm" from my Mod: This carpet has all the Regiments changes.
To patch EngRel, you must use program LIPS (this was needed to compress Engrel archive for being too heavy). My EngRel archive brings the new Items costs.
1) Run Lunar IPS program, press "Apply IPS Patch" (a window opens), click on the Heart Icon called EngRel from my Mod.
2) A new window opens. SELECT FILE TO PATCH, change type from "Most Common ROM Files" to "All Files (*.*)" and click on the EngRel archive of Dark Omen (with this you are changing the Old EngRel for the New). After patching, a message will appear saying that you have made the operation successfully.
Returning to original game is the same procedure (using obviously the Backup archives)

@Community: I hope to see you in Tournament. I will organize and play with you.  Kiss

* Dark Omen (Mod).zip (159.33 KB - downloaded 187 times.)
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alavet
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 07:37:42 AM »

one comment:
once you created right engrel.exe (with FO changes) you might save it as a copy (like named FOengrel.exe) and then use it as a fast switcher between versions. Please make a backup for your original engrel.exe if you dont have such, cause changing from FO to original DO is little more complicated.
as far as i can see only item prices corrected in new engrel.exe


i wish to start there a balance thread.
first of all, i have to say that its not much balanced, and the most pitty that i think it will be impossible to balance it right in the way Jeronimo dreams about. and thats why:

if you ever played table Warhammer40k, you possibly know that all regiment have some kind of "type" like, "base regiment", "elite", or "special units" and in standard game you're limited in each type of units to use. sure, it differs from type of the game you play, but more than less, you're limited in troops. Good example might be found in Mika 9k ruleset 9where he divided armies for "core", "elite" and "unique" troops. I dont quite sure if type of units imoplemented at fantasy warhammer, but i feel that it should be the same as at wh40k.

how it all affects DO: with current ruleset and prices i was able to create some pretty "standard" combo of army:
x1 grail lvl2 with ptoloss & banner of antimagic
x1 vamprie lvl4 with osiris +ashur +wand
x2 mummeis (one with banner)
x5 ghouls as a meat.

its not some kind of really "imba" army but its very hard to be countered with any of our standard 9/30 army ruleset.
for instance, in our 9/30 ruleset i was only able to buy lvl2 vampire + osiris + wand and x2 mummies + other stuff and thats was enough to win tourney.

and its even not too much imbalanced build. what if i choose to have 4 graisl (or how many of them i will be able to buy?)+antimagic items. it can be coutnered ONLY with soem crazy special build (i can't imagine one, but suppose it's soemthing about mass flagellants + perhars mortair or mass mummies).

or imagine mummies invasion (like u faced in the last mission but when they attack from all sides at the same time).

and some other build which for sure can be implemented and might be foudn as imba.

also i'm currently talking about 9k armies, but if we look to the lower ones, like 3/5/7k, situation also not much good, until lwe implement some "points" or just simple "rules" for it.
the problem is that in any army mage will be a "must" even for 3k amry cause his power is just amazing comparing to any other standard regiment (and decreasing with icnreasing of gold limits). in that case only possible solution is limit armies to 2lvl for 5k army and etc.

also prices for some regiments/items should be corrected (like osiris, etc)
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 11:28:41 AM »

[Jeronimo] About Regiments I did: Mummies +120, Flagellants: +120, BGK: +60.

Items... Osiris at 480 is preety now from my point of view (only wizz can use it, if wizz dies, i can take your item with mine, anyway Banner of Wrath is much better and cost 1200gc, x2.5 Osiris Cost)

The UD army about is the one that faced me. (remember first battle), yes I know is tough, but it can be handled. In that battle my army wasnt "the best to stand them" and I also commanded badly, (send archers forward instead of shooting from beggining you know it).

I see mummy invasion so bad... no chances if only 1 has banner and also they cost 1080gc in basic.. not really a good decision. I did FO for not using Rules if possible. Give it a chance.
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sipax
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 12:08:15 PM »

Lordbraprus, i really think your FO system is very easy to create army (w/o point system).
And if there any mistakes, i think you can fix it. (but better before tournament)
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alavet
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 02:17:53 PM »

I feel nothing bad about test for 9k tourney (especially cause i LOVE 3lvl mages) but please give us some idea how is possible to handle 4 or even 6 grails?? i just dont have ANY idea how to deal with 6. 4, maybe 5 of them maybe doable on very good map + mage with paralyze/firewall + flagellants + mortairrrrr. but 6...
and HOW  are you going to counter even 4 grails with greenskins?

to handle this case i see nothign wrong in modifing greenskisn armies in stats or in "heads" (since you already changed "heads for human regiments".
solution might be found in icnreasing swarms of scroprions/spider/trolls and adding stats for orcs but in "standard" modifications greenskins is jsut trash at 9k FO

i have to additionally say that i pretty much like your system in regiment heads changes (like, differing human cavalry and swordmen).
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 05:22:56 PM »

hi , iam not jeronimo, iam lordbraprus.. avalet if you are a good player, you can deal with 5 grials(maximum cause of the goldcost 1560).. there are a lot of ways to defeat them, with orcs you will be able to buy maximum big uns and orc shaman lvl 3, with the mork fist, the boosting and the foot. mortar , make a combo with magic items, horn of urgok.
 with humans withpistoliers cannon mortar fire mage lvl 3, or even ice mage lvl 3, that with one tornado can kill 3 grial, flagelants elf spear man, you can buy 2 treeman and use in combination with the elfs spears, so please , before reply, use your brain. thanks

and i f you make a lot of flagelants, i just buy 4 crossbow, 2 canon 1 mortar, cavalery and maybe spears elfs (and mage)
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alavet
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 05:31:34 PM »

guess i am a bad player...see your armies with my 5 grails soon!
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 07:58:13 PM »

haha, maybe you are not a bad player, just that you are like a coward crying baby calling for mamma to drink milk (and food)  Cheesy     Cheesy
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sipax
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 08:19:25 PM »

Maybe its clever to make osiris more expensive?
Try to explain:
its cause extra damage (more than wrath banner) and its totally accurate!
Also it can be used against mages & penetrate magic armor as well.
Also, it fires throw all units in range, so sometimes it can kill artillery crew (at least 1-2) +some infantry and even other troops!
Can you make aimed shot with baner? No!
600-700 at least i think.
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2009, 01:31:47 AM »

[Jeronimo] "You are wraith, you are wraith" True.. Osiris is cool, if wiz is well played it can be devasting. Also I dont like the future im seeing about BGK.. although at 1560 u cant have 2 with 3k, you can still have 3 at 5k, which is equal of disadvantage... so i resolved this for last time.

Version with Osiris, BGK, Mummies, Elf sylvan archers, UD wizards (a bit more expensive)

I hope for the last time.. this pleases Community, and think in FO as a real FO (wouldnt be Fair if Osiris was underpriced, you get my point Smiley )
The whole MOD now has 34.500gc in goldprice (items+basic reg)
Also named DO.EngRel and FO.EngRel, as Alavet suggested.

@Sipax, Alavet: Do you like it better now?

* Dark Omen (Mod).zip (161.01 KB - downloaded 183 times.)
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Jim
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 11:23:34 PM »

Alavet says the truth.
Black Grails is a tank, and even one regiment 1lvl can destroy half of a good 5k greenskins army.
If we want to make this all fair, we have to make them cost about 4000, for the 1lvl Smiley Seriously.
That is BG's adequate price.
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2009, 01:00:08 AM »

naa... that is absurde.. your reply was not well thinked, we talked this a lot of times, wont repeat the same answers. jim if i dont remember wrong you are new, so with the time you will see the several ways of killing grails, it seems it hard for you understand that if he makes 5 lvl 1 rails you will be able to have 8 lvl big uns, and mage lvl 3 too... i wont answer more un thinked replys


braprus.
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alavet
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 01:46:13 PM »

ok we tested it with sipax and it's possible to beat 4-5 grails by some special builds of humans now. unfortunately its IMPOSSIBLE to beat 4-5 grails with orcs.
the problem with orcs that they're pretty weak and coward and dotn have unbreakable units. and with all these cost reduction for humans and undeds (im not only talking about "gold" reduction, but also their "points") means that orcs now suck even more (as they were the worst race in syatnard DO in my opinion). it will be ok if it'd be possible to place more than 10 regiments, but since its impossible, orcs suffers badly. i see some kind of solution if decreasing cost for their armies even more, like at least 20% reduction for most common units like biguns, cavalry & orcs.

and dont talk shit about your big shaman and biguns - shama ncan do nothign agaisnt antimagic, and biguns flee vs grail just liek any other orc unit (on the second or third turn as max)

you can say "bah he's whinign again, and im so tired of all these bbalance issues etc etc" but maqking a good balance its not a easy job but a regular work...
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lordbraprus
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 02:51:51 PM »

[Jeronimo]

Ok. I can make BGK even more expensive after Tournament.

The actual problem is many BGK against Greenskins. You see it now at 1800gc (the same as Vampire TOP or 16/16 skeleton horsemen TOP). If you do 5 Grails you cant give them any Item and lose all magic option, since you dont have any wizard.

Lets say 4 BGK with maybe an average wiz or +some Items. If 10 regiments of greenskins (even supported by Horn of Urgok, or BOOST magic) cant deal with them. I will recognize they must be higher in cost.

What about 2400gc? Yes, like a bloody Horn of Urgok. BGK = Horn of Urgok sounds good balance. (after Tourney)

You already see Mummies at 1200gc = Banner of Wrath  Smiley

@Jim: Forgive my brother (he justs go berserk when reads something doesnt like).
I dont care if u are new or old member. I consider all comments. Is good to hear many opinions.
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alavet
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 02:55:39 PM »

i dunno maybe grails shou,d be increased i ncost. but i sue that orcs should be lwoered. currently i can imagine how to beat lvl3 human mage + stuff with greenskins
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