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Author Topic: Back to the Roots (BTTR)  (Read 17632 times)
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Ghabry
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« on: March 01, 2010, 11:51:01 PM »

Today I will publish a ruleset that provides (nearly) Totally Freedom in Army Creation

The money is fixed to 9000gc and it applies No modifications to Dark Omen.

There is Only one Rule (and some guidelines): DONT PLAY LAME (or use Lame army builds).

After some discussions we decided that an army should fit into the following guidelines:
- Some Units are reduced to 2 Units max: Black Grail, Archers (2 per Type), Artillery (2 per Type)
- Mages are reduced to 1 max in whole army
- No Horn

Before the battle you can discuss with the player about things like e.g.:
Horn allowed, No Magic Items, No Teleport

Attention: These guidelines don't define the rules. Non-written down rules like e.g. "Don't spam mummies" still apply because of "Don't use lame army builds"!



More information can be found in this thread.

Most of the players should have enough knowledge to define by themselves what is considered lame (conserning army builds and gameplay). All newer players (players with no huge experience in multiplayer) can ask here in this thread about army builds to find out if they are lame or not.

Exchange your knowledge and Discuss!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 12:25:11 AM by Ghabry » Logged

olly
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 12:53:01 AM »

I like the simplicity and freedom but to prevent lameness, I would add 1 more Rule - >

Only 2 of same character allowed, except Super Units, then only 1 of each - 1Mortor, 1 cannon, 1 BGK , 1 Elven Archer etc..


Many of you may already be familar with this, since I have used this quick ruleset on many new players and it does prevent alot of problems, as it is simple to follow and allows freedom, until they have time to read and learn our other rulesets.

Smiley

« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 12:59:58 AM by olly » Logged

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Darkmancer
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 03:13:29 AM »

- without modding hate saying it but the horn has to be banned, its so powerful all games will revolve around it otherwise.

-super wizards! maybe a simple rule such as:
no teleporting
or
teleport only allowed for use to enter combat no escape
or
ward of jet must be ejected before teleport is used ( although you can pick it up again later).

and don't be a douche bag with pistoliers Smiley
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[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Jeronimo
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 04:16:13 AM »

@Ghabry: Wink
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hari8
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 08:56:50 AM »

Mortar is lame XD
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Ghabry
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2010, 02:28:03 PM »

- without modding hate saying it but the horn has to be banned, its so powerful all games will revolve around it otherwise.
Well there is ONE situation where the Horn is really useful: To defeat the stupid zombies that are casted by the "Raise the Dead"-Spell. But against other regiments then Undead (Zombies) it's really unfair. I have to agree with this.
Oh and don't forget Hawks of Miska spell. I played many games against Jeronimo and he had nearly always the Miska spell which caused huge problems with retraating regiments...

And everybody knows in what situations Horn is Lame Wink. E.g. Undeads with Horn: Really Lame.

-super wizards! maybe a simple rule such as:
no teleporting
Well the only really problem causing Wizard is the Vampire because of the high healthpoints and the unfair speed (and undeads have overpowered spells like Dancing Swords on LV1!, ok Bright Wizard has screaming skull but you need direct line of sight)
Others can be destroyed by archers and cannons (or other wizards).


How about no magic items? Wink
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 05:34:48 PM »

You should Gabriel take a look at "Different Style" in Multiplayer Topic (thread created by WHF)

I suggested there No Items and No Artillery.

Means that Shields and Expert Reg yes are allowed.

- magic = + tactic?
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Darkmancer
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 06:32:48 PM »

I have to disagree Ghabry, I have in the past detroyed entire armies with the bright wizard & teleport.  It's possible to warp in fire a spell and warp out before the other player can react, mainly down to the lag between the time you warp in and the time before your wizards banner appears on the enemeies screen.

As long as your quick, even direct fire weapons aint quick enough with the time taken to reform before firing, archers are pathetic.

I know your trying to be as open and simple as possible, but 1 point teleport needs curtailing.
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[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Jeronimo
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 09:46:58 PM »

Wizard Game Play: Teleport destinations must be always near a friendly/enemy regiment.
Every Wizard can use each Spell level 2 & 3 only once per Magic Cycle (like if Spells were Items).


When I told my brohter about this "new way" he agreed after 5 seconds. Of course we had a longer talk afterwards, where we analized different situations, and everything ended that is good resolution.

Its in fact a Gameplay that increases tactical level: what and when to cast Spells through Magic Cycles.
Magic Cycles last 25 sec. Do you agree (general consensus) to play this way with Wizards? (for all Rulesets)
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bembelimen
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 09:52:07 PM »

I think, you all didn't understand the main sentence of this rule:

DONT PLAY LAME (or use Lame army builds).

I personal see no reason to limit items/spells/regiments, as long as everyone plays within this rule...
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Flak
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 09:55:31 PM »

agreed

lets try to focus less on rules and restrictions and focus on fun gameplay
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Jeronimo
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 10:30:41 PM »

As far i know, its impossible to edit magic spells: I would be glad to make Teleport cost 3 points and this way no rules for it. Or even reduce the Max range of Miska Hawks/Dark Blades.

But its true: Think in Arzunibapal Black Horror, Frozen Nova/Armor, etc. Who will cast them?

I managed to remove Armybuilds limits because they could be "changed" (gold/size) making also the Greenskins Race stronger. Also removed the Items issue, giving some crazy prices like 4k Horn of Urgok.

But concerning to Wizards (and just Wizards), is not possbile to re-edit those stuff (like 1-2-3 points or Ranges).
With things like this we still cant manage, only 1 Rule is enough (or 2 with "teleport destinations").

My opinion: Game should be free of Rules, with only except my Idea towards Wizards.
Battles are funnier, when you reduce their participation.

As Darkmancer say, Ranged/Artillery most times are "slow" to react (preparing to shoot the target). Annoy us.
Pistoliers or Artillery dont bother me as we talk of LamePlay, they are nothing comparing to Wizards.
1 effective spell=1 less enemy regiment. Artilleries have enough price and Wizards what they deserve.


You will notice that already Ice Mage L1 starts with 2 spells Lvl2 +dispel +ice shield.
I say this for Experience. Against Gabriel, I had Miska in 6 continued battles. Lets say is not funny to cast them twice in a turn (you dispel it and he recast Miska again in same Magic Cycle). Sure, fun gameplay...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 10:44:34 PM by Jeronimo » Logged
Darkmancer
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 10:39:05 PM »


I personal see no reason to limit items/spells/regiments, as long as everyone plays within this rule...

The main reason is simpley whats lame to one person isn't to another, whinging on the forums is infinitely preferable to arguments kicking off in game.  Not to mention what about new people trying the game, how are they supposed to know whats lame?  How off putting will it be to them to keep being told "you can't do that" ingame?

I dislike rules as much as the next person, especially the verbose if x do y while z is in effect whilst you have less than 4 units and a ichy left testicle (labia if otherwise endowed), but people do need general guidelines.

To me ideally a person whose never played the game before should be able to read them once, understand them, and get on with building his army in under 5 seconds.

Quick n dirty something like..

No horn,
no more than 2 of every unit (unless really basic like zombies or goblins)
no more than 4 balistic (archer+arty)
no camping
don't endlessly hit and run (pistoliers, teleports, elven archers, calvary + banner of wrath)

Are these too restrictive?
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Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay:
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[23:04:33] <*Ghabry> The internal design of Darkmancer is just strange
Flak
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 10:44:39 PM »

no they arent too bad and more what ghabry had in mind i think
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"Just because a mage wears the Black Robes, does not make him evil." -- Raislin Magere

"Evil Turns upon it self" -- Paladine
lordbraprus
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 08:20:57 PM »

hey i would say, maximum 2 grial , 2 elven archer and 2 of every artillery,  and 1 mage of course

then the other, limit of 3 for each one

then we can speak about magic items, to decide if play or not with them
 or play with them but ban the horn.
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ito maquiesves
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