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Author Topic: What's being worked on at the moment?  (Read 34699 times)
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olly
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2010, 07:29:41 PM »

I'll look forward to testing this latest version out, sounds wicked!

Smiley

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Wkurwiony
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2010, 09:50:02 AM »

wow Mikademus you really put much heart into it ;] keep up the great work
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Mikademus
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2010, 08:12:58 PM »

Short note: because of shortcomings with the camera system that became obviously unacceptable when the map editor was tested by others here I am rebuilding it. Relatively speaking, it is much smaller surgery than most others I've performed on the codebase lately, but I'm rather keen on this system working really well, and it revolves around some pretty specific OGRE wizardry so I'm taking my time with this one.

[Edit: rebuilding the camera system, that is]
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 11:35:38 AM by Mikademus » Logged


olly
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2010, 11:14:11 PM »

The new Map viewer is really nice to use and has proved very usefull, when im previewing some of my early custom mod maps.

Thnx again!

Smiley

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Mikademus
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 07:15:44 PM »

Short update so you know what's up.

Still working on fixing the camera. What was wrong with the previous system was that I was trying to avoid additional mathematics and low-level operations by using what is called a two-node camera system. In this I had one scene node containing the camera, and one node representing the focus of the camera (the "look-at point"), where the camera auto-tracked the focus. The reason for this system was to allow both FPS camera and orbit camera controls with the same camera class, and by using two nodes these modes are basically only a difference of changing which node you rotate. This was a simple and elegant system requiring minimal code on my part. However, due to the funky nature of OGRE's auto-tracking always defaulting to the [0,1,0] up vector for generating its world matrix, the camera had the two interesting flaws of (1) inverting the Y movement depending on whether looking to the positive or negative Z, and (2) interpolating the look vector toward [0,0,1] when Y was updated. Great fun...

So basically I had to switch to a more classic model where I calculate camera rotations. This is trivial for FPS control, and easy for orbit control, as long as you know the intersection point of the camera's look vector and the geometry (or easier put, "where you look at"). Unfortunately, OGRE, as the only render engine ever made, does not support raycasting to the polygon level. There has been some debate on the form about this which boils down to that everyone and their mothers thinks it should be there, but two vocal moderators have invested some kind of difficult to understand pride in their votes to the contrary, and have held up the feature for some two years.

Well, in all truth, there is support for this, but only against what is known as "static geometry", which is a special kind of pre-analysed geometry created by OGRE by feeding meshes to it. For some very strange reason, though, the Meshes made from Dark Omen maps causes this static geometry cooker to crash. The forum provides no help, as generally is the case with any interesting or difficult problem. So I have had to roll my own polygon-collision routine. This works, but also has revealed that something IS strange with the Dark Omen geometry, since only about half of the polygons of any given map will react to intersection tests. So I've tried to get help about what could be wrong with geometry, and gotten no response. See a pattern?

So basically, the camera system is actually working, but there are some outstanding issues which makes it not usable atm, and that are rather technical and OGRE-specific that has to be solved. This is complicated and to top it off real life has made some very tolling demands on me last week, and I haven't been able to put much work into solving these issues.

So there you have it. Quick update so you know things are moving along, and why this takes longer than I originally hoped it would.
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olly
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 08:11:27 PM »

Interesting problems and solutions, enjoyable to read and learn but sounds frustrating when facing Ogres' lack of support.


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Grend
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 09:03:41 AM »

So glad I never learned to code
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Ghabry
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 10:04:02 AM »

Good that I never programmed something that uses a 3D Engine Cheesy. But maybe some of these problems are only Ogre related...

It's always interesting to read your stories about the wtf-moments in the Ogre Engine.

My favourite one for now is the story about the joke called "Tree Widget" in CEGUI.
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alavet
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 10:04:25 AM »

what i understood its an OGRE. you're making OGRES to be playable in the game, right? Cheesy

seriously though, not udnerstanding much of the problems you facing with. hope you can deal with it w/o much delay!
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Mikademus
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2010, 03:00:33 PM »

what i understood its an OGRE. you're making OGRES to be playable in the game, right? Cheesy

seriously though, not udnerstanding much of the problems you facing with. hope you can deal with it w/o much delay!

Heh, since OGRE 3D comes with a skinned and skeleton-animated ogre (the hallmark mascot) I will probably put it into a beta version Tongue

Don't worry if my explanations aren't understandable, I'm just telling what's up atm to say to you all that you're important and I want you to have some insight into progress/delays/whatever. The technical details are there as a bonus for those of that background or inclination Smiley
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Mikademus
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2010, 11:58:16 PM »

Double-posting, but this is MY THREAD and MY SUB-FORUM, so I can do that! Moahahahaaa....

Anyway, here are some screenshots to illustrate the problem. Basically, some polygons can be intersected with a raycast, while some cannot. All geometry should be correct, if nothing else simply because OGRE can render it! So I am quite confused...

Anyway, the green lines are successful intersections. But as you can see, the camera will not work on most of the map. This is something of a problem Sad


Full render (view images for full size):


Wireframe:



New thread at the OGRE forum
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olly
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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2010, 12:58:46 AM »

A picture paints a thousand words, thnx

but what a horrible problem, since - as you say it renders the whole scene, so why can't it raycast the whole scene.
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Ghabry
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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2010, 09:38:34 AM »

Hm the wireframe reminds me of the official map editor.

I wonder in the thread who Keemossi is Wink.

Now B2T:
This looks like a booooooorrrring debugging job.

It's strange that there isn't any logic because even in the ray casting part are just some parts of the map not casting.
But the pond does work completly...

Does the working terrain has some special properties that are slightly different in all other parts?
How is the result on nearly flat maps like Spare9?
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Mikademus
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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2010, 10:29:40 AM »

It's strange that there isn't any logic because even in the ray casting part are just some parts of the map not casting. But the pond does work completly... Does the working terrain has some special properties that are slightly different in all other parts? How is the result on nearly flat maps like Spare9?


I am starting to think is is related to materials, of all things! Or perhaps vertex batches, since they're organised by texture in the BASE.M3D file. It is strange, though, since the water is one model, but the pond and river tributary probably have different batched. Anyway, both B1_04 and SPARE9 really show that there is some kind of correlation between materials and ray intersections:


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olly
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« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2010, 02:47:05 PM »

A possible good test would be if i sent u my Empty Spare9 Mod map that I'm working on, where I have overwritten all textures to be grass but left their names intact. So the original Circle01 texture is still called Circle01 but its texture is now the same as NFLGRS01.



Or I can send you my own 10x10 Flat extra Terrain Block to test



Smiley


« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 03:15:02 PM by olly » Logged

and back in Nuln, the ageing Graf Berhardt smiled his secret smile of pride whenever he heard the latest tales of his eldest son's ever growing chain of glorious victories -(sothr manual)
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