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Changing vampire status

[alavet]

Hll all, after series of play with tovertut he argued that it's very hard to handle the vampire, cause he is not only mage, but also the fastest unit in the game, as well as has good stats. and this is one of the reason why he doesnt play DO much.

i also feel vampire is overpowered (not too much but still). and also he decreases usefullness of necromancer pretty much.

so after soem thoughts i propose following:
1) to change vampire stats from Mage to Standard warrior (kicking off his spells)
2) increase heads in Vamprie regiment up to 2-3

so after all we will ahve some kind of spec ops regiment, which is not superior by their own, but can do some key/tactic mission during the battle. this is especially vital for UD while they dont have any defence, this unit will icnrease UD edge in attack more, as well as solving "vasmpire" problem.

how do u like it?

[Flak]

What ruleset would this be for?

in 3k/10, 5k/15 and 9k/30 where vampires are costly to pick i dont see it as a problem as vampires often dont have that much support that there is enough enemies to handle them.

In Factions and FO i guess it is more of a problem, if their stats are to be changed here i would suggest making them the same speed as other mages M:4 to make them easier to get with ranged like other mages. Not remove their magic, 3 vampires in one regiment is also very hard to beat, if you have played my dwarf campaign you will have tried this at Sylvania and they are hella tough, prolly worse than mummies.

[alavet]

only for standard 3/15 and futher. not conquest.

i just think about cause i enjoyed FO fixes with number of units in regiment and some units cost (but i still belive points system is better). so as it feels good and we can really prepare a new mod files for DO i see no problems in changing some units specialities, like vampire.

// i didnt get it:
Not remove their magic, 3 vampires in one regiment is also very hard to beat, if you have played my dwarf campaign you will have tried this at Sylvania and they are hella tough, prolly worse than mummies. do u sugegst make 3 vampires + mages but slow and little less stats? stil too imba imo..
better either 3 vampires by their own or perhars 2, or single vampire with magic (maybe with lover speed).

[Flak]

i meant put vampire to normal speed

in 3-5-9k there is no reason to as in all but 9k its only level 1 vampires anyway far less dangerous.
lol Conquest we discuss in its own sub-forum.

No im sayn not to make 2-3 vampires in a regiment but to make them slower so they become more vulnerable to arrows.
But only in non-point rulesets like Factions and FO. Because in point rulesets they can be balanced by points.

[Nitrox]

Vampire Thrall MV    WS   BS    ST  TO   WO   In   AT   LD   US
                   6       6     4      5   4      2      6    3    7    1

Vampire Lord MV   WS    BS   ST  TO   WO   In   AT   LD   US
                  6     8       6     5   5      4      8    5    10    1


Vampire Count MV   WS    BS   ST  TO   WO   In   AT   LD   US
                   6     7       5      5   5      3    7     4     9     1

+All have magic

This is the stats of the vampire in the newest edition, one different between tabletop Warhammer and the DO is that DO isnt a turn game, but still vampires are good in WH Table top, so removing their magic will destroy they plot (Read history of vampires in DO, they know the magic) so....Reduce their MV but dont remove their magic.

[lordbraprus]

[Jeronimo] I always prefer to point a change to heads, gold or Psychology (texts didnt correspond with editor)

These were some ideas to balance game FO, however didnt make them because Im shy (hahaha ok lets say i wanted to keep warhammer numbers in that part)

Flag -1 att, having jsut 1 would make them less attractive. Still Flag weapon is very cool. (720gc? YES!!)
BGK -1WS, -1 att, having jsut 1 would make Lcheck less powerful, so reduce his cost keeping it at 1800gc. Less trouble for GS.
+1 mov to wraiths. 4 mov is too slow IMO, and theyre awful because their L5.
Trolls Leadership +1 to 5. I dont like this unique L4 in whole game.
Orc Boar boyz +1 WS. they should hit better. ORCS!!
Biggun +1 att is nice. They Big boys, hit strong (like Mummies 2 attaks) I realized GS dont have any 2 att reg besides monsters. 15/15 biguns attacking hard is nice (of course then i will reorganize prices)

I must admit i like Vamp how is it now, my new FO price for it is 1020 basic (Oh my god!) Yes. and Necromancer 600. 420 gc distance is bigger than before. 9k/FO was just 360 (540 - 900)
But mmh... Vampy with 4 mov, and reduce cost to 900gc sounds so nice! He will be still a 2nd wizard choice.

Dont know if you WANT to make some adjusts to STATS in the name of God Balance. This could be really interesting, im good at handling this kind of tasks. I never changed that "Area" in FO.

Its a different perspective to balance game. Perhaps.. this would mean a "Bye Bye Bye" song to Armybuild restrictions. Write me if you like IDEA of making some adjusts to that still virgin zone in Fair Omen.

[warhammerfreak]

Nitrox, those stats were the stats of last edition.

I agree the first thing we should do with vampires is either:
REMOVE MAGIC:
I think this way the unit get another purpose in the game. We could make it some kind of very fast infantry unit, with 9 heads or something, not 3 wounds but 1 T4 with reasonable good save but with great combat powers. Or we could make something like a drow assassins (conquest).


DECREASE MOVE:
I think this option is as viable as the previous. This way they will just be tough necro's, like orc wizards in comparison the goblin wizards.

[Jeronimo]

About removing magic, I dont like it because every race needs at least 2 Wizard options.
Vampire with movement 6 is not the problem. The problem is the Gold Cost. A suitable price is what he needs.

[tovertrut]

i like how warhammerfreak put that:

This way they will just be tough necro's, like orc wizards in comparison the goblin wizards.

for me the vampires movementspeed has been bothering since start,hes as fast as a cav regiment and since he can manouver better(1unit in regiment instead of alot)he is almost impossible to catch even if he doesnt have teleport.if he does have teleport a expierenced player can make him move freely through ur ranks with very low risk of getting caught,also facing off against each other a vampire will beat a regiment of archers easely(because of his toughness and movement speed mixed) so hes a very overpowered unit i find,to fast to be caught by a melee regiment and also to fast and tough to be shot down by a ranged regiment

[sipax]

1) to change vampire stats from Mage to Standard warrior (kicking off his spells)
2) increase heads in Vamprie regiment up to 2-3

This is a joke, right?

[warhammerfreak]

This is one of the things that bothered me most in DO, hit and run tactics. This is the only purpose he is used for so a change is necessary in my eyes.