Warhammer Dark Omen Forum

Rules:

Well after playing lots of tournaments and wining exp in the game issues the rules are few and basic:

For the army editing
1 first of all , each player can make 1 and only 1 army per race, he cant make armys during the tournament.
2 you can have only one heroe regiment of each kind, cant repeat. example (you can have a shaman goblin and a grimor, and a orc shaman if you wish :P , but not 2 grimor regiments)
the undead is a special case, due that manfred have magic, and he is a mounted vampire, you have to choose between manfred or the normal vampire, then you can put the necromancer if you wish
3 you can only repeat 3 times a squad,  exept zombies, goblins, snotlings and haldbeiders (you can make all what you wish of that units).

Before start:
1 the hoster choose the map from the map list (first choose one player, then the other)
2 races can be used once per player round of combats (2 or 3 depending how many players are in th group)

Ingame:
If a player have 4 or less regiments (without mage) and the enemy have one mage with flying ability, the player with that mage can do what ever he wants , exept teleport, he can run , walk, dance, cast any magic exept the teleport one, unless the other player admit defeat :P

this rule was created because playing against a guy in hamachi i was with 5 regiments of infantery with undead, and the guy had 1 vampire with teleport and,,,, well they was 15 minute trying to catch the vampire , and guees what, i cuoldnt , as we know the pathfinding is not pretty cool in Dark omen engine so now you do what you want exept teleport.

victory = 2 points
draw= 1 point (example:1mage against a infantery unit that have spell esater shield, etc, etc)

the battles are= 2 if in the group there are 4+ players, and 3 battles if in the group there are 3- players, that means that final and semifinal are 3 battles between each player as in 3th and 4th place too.

any suggestions ?

Do vampires and ghouls have the skeleton flag? (Ghouls not so bad but vampires?)
Wrights seem pointlees now unless they've gotten some stat increases elsewhere.

Snotlings have 3 wounds and 3 attacks? I thought they were smaller than goblins?

Maybe also include that whilst you still have other none routing units besides you mage (except endlessly retreating calvary, etc) you can still teleport.  For situations like, mage + 2 squads of halberdiers vs 4 squads of blood dragons/black knights, you'd have to wipe out the halberdiers first.

hey darkmancer, did you read that i said that the game now have 7th edition rules:S , do oyu know that snotling are 6 big bases with lots of snotling, one base have like 6 little snotling that count has one unit with 3 wounds and 3 atacks? do you? and i repeat do you know how to read and corroborate things?

all undead units have skeleton flag, because all they are dead now, vampires are not living beings, they are undead, they (undead) have skeleton flag but they are unbreakable now so that change tactics a little.

look i teach you with a photo.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5051/snotling.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/snotling.jpg/)

do oyu see? there a re 6 snotling in each base, you said "
Snotlings have 3 wounds and 3 attacks? I thought they were smaller than goblins?"

yes thet are smaller if the base have 6 snotling and have 3 atacks that means that each snotling have 0,5 atacks. i hope you could understand..

No, it doesnt mathers if the player with the mage  have any other units, waht mathers here, is that the others play have 4- units (without mage) so the other player with the mage , or the mage+ anyunits looks very very very very dificult to kill, what you said, makes the game harder to the player without mage.

Yes I do know how to read and corroborate things.  However I do not have the 7th edition rules, thus i post questions on here, there is no need to be a twat about it.

Not really you just need to kill off the other units, the problem with the mage teleport rule is when the 4 units in question are very powerful. There are situations especially in low GP games where it can be abused simply by picking 4 very powerful units instead of 5+ normal ones, if you don't want to make the rule more complicated fair enough.

As an aside, and because I'm bored and lonely, here's how I'd tentatively structure a 7th Edition Dark Omen Army list. (Copied and pasted from my notepad file as I mused)

Empire List -

Mage Lord - (Level 4) Fire


Elector Count - Mounted
(Default Unit Size 10, Max size 20)

Elector Count - On Foot
(Either Swordsmen, or Greatswords) (Greatswords immunue to fear? Great Weapons)
(Default Unit Size 20, Max Size 30)

Minor Mage - (Level 2) Fire (alone)

Minor Mage - (In a Unit 15 - 20 swordsmen)

Empire Captain - (In a unit of Swordsmen)

Swordsmen - 20-30 Swordsmen

Halberdiers - 10 Halberdiers

Longbowmen - 10 Longbowmen

Crossbowmen - 10 Crossbowmen

Greatswords - 10 - 20 Greatswords. (Something to Represent Stubborn, Immunue fear? Great Weapons))

Knights - 5 - 15 Knights (Flails to represent lances, Horses, Knights of the Realm model).

May have one Unit of Inner Circle Knights, also 5 - 15 (But with Improved strength, and idential bonuses.)

Mortar

Cannon.

0- 1 Flagilants
Unbreakable, flails
Unit Size 10 - 20

0-  1 Steamtank



Undead List -

Vampire Lord (In Wright Unit)

Vampire Lord (In Cav Unit)

Vampire Lord (Alone)

Necromancer (Alone)

Necromancer (In Skellie Unit)

(Options for Wight Lord in Skellie Unit too?)

Skellies-
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble
(Skellie Unit Size - Default 10, max 30.)

Zombies -
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble
(Zombi Unit Size - Default 20, Max 30)

Wraiths -
Cause Fear, Etherial, Unbreakable, Crumble, Great Weapons,
(Wraith Unit Size, Default 3, Max 9)

Wrights -
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble, Wright Weapons)
(Wright Unit Size - Default 10, Max 20)

Ghouls -
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble, (Posion?)
(Ghouls - Default 10, Max, 25.)

Black Knights,
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble, Lances (Flails) Mounted, Etherial Steeds
(Default Size 10, Max size 20.)

Blood Knights,
Cause Fear, Unbreakable, Crumble, Lances, (Flails) Mounted
(Dfault Size 5, Max Size 10.)

Trolls               3/3 (now, as the 7th edition rules, they are inmune to sicology)

what is sicology? only immune to fear/terror? odoes the yahve resistance to magic?

hell yes finally vampire is a single battle unit. my dreams come ture, see my suggestion about removing magic from vampire

on a side note, skeleton flag seems pretty OMFG change, esp for wights, they mostly were there for a meatshield.


waht i really need to know:

- prices for regiments
- would be item priced get balanced as at FO?


p.s. lol i really love how lordbrapus describing things. everythign getting so clear (udnerstanadble). its like he repeating some thing (so your mind easier to memorize it) from tiem to time, even though he used to switch another topic. like he was talking about  skeleton flag and then he tell you things again (for betetr udnerstanding). its just like constantly trying to deliver one simple thing (how to better memorize). i really like they way how he uses it, its pretty much easier to catch things and not forget things. and better udnerstand.

*Blinks*

Holycrap, that reminds me Al...

Trolls have magic immunity, yes? But I don't remeber there being an 'Semi immune to magic' option in W32edit. Have we not figured out how to switch that?

And I'm pretty sure he means psychology, as trolls are 'Stupid' making them immunue to psychology. (Alas in DO, the closest we can do is, 'immunue to fear.' Although really they should be immunue to fear, terror, and panic...

"Semi immune to magic" Comes from having troll armour i think.  There is an immune to magic flag thou its a little proactive (it seems to like dispelling spells that don't even contact the unit with the flag).

An alternative solution is to select no items flag then equipe the unit with a banner.

beware that as for tryn to make rules as for how a ruleset is used in a tournament does not mean it will be so.
As the organizer i will make adjustments if there are things that turns out to be impractical, and the point system used in a tournament is individual to each tournament depending how the fixtures are.
An example is that there can be no draws in a tournament battle, players can agree to start a battle over if they hit a stalemate, fair enough same as if a game crash's.

other than that, continue to devoted work :)

like flaks says about hte game engine, crashes bugs and all that stuff,  i did those simply rules . and thats all for now...

alavet, the troll are unbreakable now, because they are stupid, that rule is not in w32 edit but now the cause terror, regenerates wounds, are unbreakable and costs 1200  3/3

Hmm, thanks for the pointers Darkmancer. The zero items but equipped with an anti magic banner strikes me as particularly creative. Will the unit still drop said banner when it dies?

'Troll Armour' dispelling magic also sounds frightfully interesting. How well do you think it functions as regular armour? A sort of no armour but with imput dispell, and then Regeneration being represented by the Regeneration tag?

Could have some fun with that...

On a sidenote, I made a so far semi successful total conversion of the current Empire Army list directly into Dark Omen, Captains and all!

(It was doubted that adding a single empire captain to a Unit would make a difference on the Dark Omen Engine. This was proved -extremely- untrue...)

Anyone up for playtesting a direct Fantasy to Dark Omen conversion? Should have undead done by the end of tommrow, and Empire's definatly ready for a through playtesting. (Costs to balence mostly.)

hey Ramiro, could you please add up prices for the units. We need prices for the units to try to correct balance if possible before tournament. cause you know w/o prices its hard to balance so we need to have prices to balance it.

did you udnerstand me? i mean, with prices we can really see if its balanced or not, and change it if need. so if you can get prices out we possibly will balance it, you know.

hope you put out some prices out there. kisses!

p.s. dont forget about prices! we need 'em!

so prices?  ;D

just put screaming skull catapult at right price or other 2 races will have really hard time ;)

Re Cid

Unfortunatly yes the unit still drops the items when it dies, the 2 solutions to this are add a rule stopping people picking up items, or add the no item flag to all/most you units (eg. in dark omen expanded very few units (typically rare leader/hero units) have the ability to hold an item, and then it tends to be only 1.

Modding DO you'll have to pick the best solution available though there tends to be always a compromise.  EG in DO flails just give a constant +2 strenght perminantly, not just for the first round.  So you can either - remove flails for flagellant, leave them with flails even though they arn't correctly implemented, or remove the flails and give them a portion of strength to simulate a temporary boost in strength.  No solution is perfect.

I think troll armour acts as "3 shield" armour thats what it show up as on the unit selection sheet, but there's no definite way to prove this.  Olly might be able to provide the armour lvl of a troll in 4th edition and its reasonable to assume DO matches it.

As a warning I'd be wary of putting fire and dark magic mages in squads as teleport & soul drain tend to crash the game I believe.

I've actually had no incidents with porting mages crashing the game since the implimentation of Countess Contressa and her Wright bodyguard for my Countess mod. Ported her here there and everywhere, without crash. Perhaps because she's tagged as an Infantry Unit, rather than as an Evil mage? (And so doesn't animate her spellcasting much.) Although I've never tried Soul Drain, so I don't know if that could have unexpected concequences...

Goodpoint about the restricting of magic items. I completely forgot to bar units without Hero characters for taking magic items in my 7th edition version. Items should be limited to heros... (whoops.)

Is there any way to increase magic item capacity without experience? Otherwise to simulate a perfect statline transistion, I'm going to have to -understat- units like the Elector Counts bodyguard, then raise their experience, (Thus improving their stats back to what they'd be on the tabletop) to give them the option of an additional item.

(Theory is the Elector counts bodyguard includes the army standard bearer and thus should be able to take the option of a magic banner as well as a sword. It's not perfect, but hey! What works...)

I guess you could test the troll thing out by pitting equally statted trolls. (Or even just blocks of infantry with troll armour) against identical units with 3 armour, then 2 armour and so forth to see if a difference became apparent.


Do the flails really work every round? That's a bitch, because +2 strength on the charge simulates lances very well. If theyt work every round they are effectively no different at all than great weapons, (Unless Great weapons correctly modify the int of the user?) That would make balencing proper cav for the lance effect more tricky... As making a cavalry charge that impacts and inflicts sevear damage is quiet hard with DO...

i think that the weapons thing work in the charge first round, like the +2 strengh to longswords, or +1 to haldbeiders :D then it is normal :S exept the wight blade

but things like basic hand weapon and two anded weapon they should work every round in the fight right??

and..yea yea iam on that please be patient, after some matches with cid hasley i have finally balanced prices, now undead will have a real diferent tactics to use :D prices are just coming

Teleport
It's in multiplayer where it crashes, it be nice if you can get it to work reliably just test it first.  I suggest you try out Grends mod Dark Omen Expanded, it tries to simulate 9th edition as best as possible, with all (well most) races (ogres, chaos, etc), there's some nice and unusual features in there.  Use the link here:
http://forum.dark-omen.org/dark-omen-expanded/release-v12-out-rebalance-and-community-wishes-t724.0.html (http://forum.dark-omen.org/dark-omen-expanded/release-v12-out-rebalance-and-community-wishes-t724.0.html)
as the one on the front page is outof date :(

Re Testing armour, it's not that simple, with the dice rolling aspect of DO you'd need hundreds of tests to find slight differences.  You could probobly tell fairly quickly ( a dozen tests or so) wether you get some armour or not, but you'd stuggle to get a definitive answer quickly.


RE weapons
Thats how we thought it worked until I did some tests with Olly.  Weaons do not have any affect on initiative nor does the flail lose is strength after the first round like it's supposed to.

***How we found out - skip if you dont care**  :)
I created a series of troops with 1,2,3,4 strenght , and gave olly a series of troops with 6,7,8 toughness with no attacks.  I got him to charge his troops into mine.  We found you need strength 4 to hurt a t7.  Then I started equiping weapons, a s2 with flail could still hurt a t7 hence flail = +2, even after multiple combat rounds the s7 troops carried on dieng, plus s1 troops could not hurt the t7 troops except when pumping the strenght button.  Even leaving several minutes between strenght boosting the t7's would still die, which would not of happened if the flails lost strength after the first round of combat.  DO seemingly can't keep track of number of round of combat.  Weapons could also only affect strength in SOTHR which DO was developed from.

It's in Mutliplayer when it crashes eh? Time for some extensive testing... This can't be allowed.

And I do belive I already have Dark Omen expanded lying around, just need to reinstall it when I've finished tinkering with my current files.

Yes, testing armour would be a sure pain in the ass, maybe I'll find someone with as little a life as I to help. Any volenteers? (Ugh, spelling.)

And that sounds like a reasonably well thought out experiment, with some quiet depressing results.If true, that would make the difference between great weapons and fails non existant, (Perhaps an accidental coding error?) Meaning great weaponed troops would best be represented simply by giving them int 1.

Which leaves trying to figure in Lances or Flails a decidedly complex excerise...

Well you options are:
Leave them as flails
downgrade to polearms (+1stregth)
downgrade them to normal weapons
Equipe potion of strength to similate a one time use.

The only other modifers are ere we go (not very suitable), and probobly the best and most unlikely too work solution, designate them as chariots. Now chariots have an imediate combat round on charging (hence the reason wizards insta die around them), how ever wether you could get DO to work in multiplayer with those rules assigned to calvary???

I seem to rerember Ghabry did get chariots in multiplayer, but I think there were problems.....

Ooooh...

I could try using the chariot attitrbute. However, given the way it redefines the unit, I think it would have horrible side effects.

Here's the bigger question though.

Flail - + 2 strength.
Double handed weapon + 2 strength
Polearm  + 1 strength.
Hand Weapon - Nothing.

So, here I am forced to ask myself...
Why do we bother giving units weapons at all? Why just just mod there statlines and be done with it?
If none of the actual effects one would expect of a weapon work, then is there any point, (and was there any point) including them in the game at all?

(The potion of strength, if I recall, doubles the units entire strength, (from 3 to 6, or even 4 - 8 is definately -not- a suitable representation of lances) and lasts for considerably longer than one combat round. Perhaps if you wanted to simulate an effect that only lasted the first fight of the game, rather than one supposed to work for the first round of combat...

The conclusion we came to was.. No, there was no point including weapons in DO, you may as well have just given the unit +2 strength etc.  Now there may be effects we can't determin, but I doubt it.  The only melee weapon that seems to do anything different is the wright blade which we believe does d3 wounds (untested).

The potion of strengh gives +2 strength at least in DO.

Re Flail,
As I said there no perfect solution, you just need to pick the one you thinks best.  Typically calvary has a bit better stats than infantry but less troops, hence if balanced right they get mauled and defeated by infantry that manages to hold, though it doesn't simulate a lance per se, but models how lancer calvaly would work.

well lets start this honeys.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2603/humanos.png) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/humanos.png/)
 i am making others now

the ( 4t) means level 4 top full experience, and 4* means 4 with half exp (yellow bar)

hey

pls canons to ~550
Imperial Cavalry vs Ragnar Wolves - why so low diffirience in price?

Same for the Imperial Greatswords & Outlaw Infantry

also count could be too low in cost, comparign to Flagellants

treeman to 1300

u didnt answered about prices for items, dear

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8026/orcos.png) (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/orcos.png/)

the cannon is 540 i forgot to change it there, sorry.

the ragnars are 12, the imperial cavalery 16, but like ragnar has +1T they are only  60 gold cheaper.

infantery has almost same prices for the simpoly reason that there is not  morethan 1 point of atribute diference, but like swordmen have 2handed wapons they cost the same as outlaw, thatare 25 that means that swordmen are better, a little, but better.

and flagelants, well i am sorry alavet but flagelants now, in 7th edition are very poor

new stats=  M4    WS2    BS2    S3    T3    W1    I3    A1    L10
old stats =   M 4  WS3  BS3 S4     T4    W1   I3     A2   L10

capish?

and prices are like jeronimos mod , but with some changes , the wand of jet is 500, osiris is 600 , stormsword 200, and urgok 4500 and wrath banner at 700, then all is the same, we, (me and jeronimo) made that balances togheter.

GS lobber to  ~920

all night goblins could be too coslty, esp with fanatics. i suggest to decreae by 30-40gc


also, as showed previous FO tourney all cavalry seems to be too udnerpriced. msot of us agreed to increae cavalry in cost liek to 20-30%, for all races
it applies for Boar boys imo


Grimor seems too cheap. isnt he?

alavet little piece of shit , now you are posting pure shit, dont you uinderstand that now units are diferent, the gblins have +2 M and +1I so i increased i little the price. lobber is fine because now the orc enviroment is that it has better units to buy (goblins, orc and golbin chaman are better, orc boar have +1WS), so i made it 1020, having in count now you have fast spiders 12/12 but weaker 1W, and you have unbreakable snotling 6/6 that maynot kill a shit but they have 3W and area humnan wall , so that is the reason i made lobber 1020.(and human cannon is 540 so lobber is almost the double of it) and alavet believme, you are a woman inside your very soul.

grimorg is fine because he just is a warrior not casues terror no fear nothing just a big warrior with good leadership = L9.

cavalery is fine, they are only 12 / 16 soldiers taht have to deal against 20 25 infantery unit+ archers + magic, cavalkery only have in general , +1 T and +1 S so costing like that is fine, anyways it is more expensvie than FO

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2306/nomuerto.png) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/nomuerto.png/)
 well before say a thing watch your words...

wait, flagellants total bullshit then. why u cost them as 900 if they have only 1 attack now? it affects them HUGELY, now they have liek same stats as infantry.. WS 2 ARE U KIDDING ME?

make them 560, and i MAYBE consider adding them to army.

also why Wand of jet = 500? it have no sense. you can buy lvl2 mage cheaper than wand of jet, and msot of the cases it would be better. (as i remeber, WOJ decrease spellpoints by 1). make it 300-330 it will be enough

------------------
no i dotn udnerstand. how could i udnerstand if you didnt mentioned it? im not yet reading your mind (maybe because thre is nothing to read, i mean, its empty, eh?)

also not tested yet, no idea how it wil lturn out but weak WS , liek ws=1 seems only reasonable if units have lots of atatcks (in theory). so WS=1 and attacks = 1 means unit totally useless, even as a wall role.

if some of unit changed stats/specials comparing to original DO you need to post it.
it will be "funny" if i decide to use treeman for 1300 and find that he has WS=3 A=2 and S=5


as for cavalry as i see prices is cluttered about 660 mark, it was liek 600 at FO. 10% icnrease not too high. i know wk (top1 tournye) stated he think cavalry should be increased in cost, so its not my aloen opinion.

pros of cavalry that they're way less scared by magic & arrows casue they're faster. and sicen they're faster they can better flanks and faster coem back to the battle if retreated (and cannot be pursued, and have betetr chance of come back from retreat due of it).

so most Fo tourney battle in the end had cavalry regiments figthing

so price as like ~800 would be beter imo

*delicately steps into the debate*

I'd just hestitate to point out that regardless of weaponstill or attacks, anything that doesn't break works in a wall role. All it needs to do is not die long enough for something useful to come round and smack something in the rear. When considering things as a wall role, all that's really important is armour, toughness, and most importantly the number of men inside the unit.

Trust me, the 25+ man blocks of unbreakable Zombi's in my forthcoming tabletop mod are going to be killer, even though they're WS1, Toughness 2. Just wait till you see what happens when the blood knights come round the back of the unit that engaged them...

Anyway, without being able to see the stats up in front of my nose, and stare at them in greater detail and concentration than my brain will let me at nearly 2 am, I doubt I can balence things currently. I would hesitate to suggest however that only prolonged playtesting would give you a real idea of balence.

The Wand of Jet I'd price around 3/4s of the cost of a high level mage. Offhand I'd idly suggest 450 gold coins. Magic weapons I'd probably run in at 300 each, but I'd really have to do a lot of playtesting to get a feel of how much the blade itself actually helps the unit, irrespective of the magic it casts. Magic banner's I'd probably price in around 600. I'm in a multiple's of three mood

Just in caseanyones overlooked it, I'd also tentatively mention that Dark Omen can, (and should) be playable at battles of 3,000 cold crowns. When you start pricing simple units like rockthrowers and Scorpains at over a thousand gold each, you start looking at some mighty small armies.

You should be able to build a respectable sized army of at least 5 or six units at 3k, it just shouldn't be overtly stylish. Where at 9k you should always be able to field 10 units, no questions asked, with room left for fancy things. (Like mages, and magic items) atop.

Anyway, back to the debate. I've said my piece.

treeman is the same, just -1M then other units are normal, exept higelves spearmen that have +1WS, skeleton horsmen are now black nights a little better +1 WS and +1Initiative. orc and ggoblin shaman have +1 W. that the most importan changes.

and tell me, what mage can you buy at least than 500gc???? ...

and piece of...asdasd didnt you notice that flagelants are 15, and still being unbreakable, so that the reason they cost what they cost they have to be  more expensive than normal infantery and something like cavalery, well i will decrease it to 780-1170(lvl 4*)

and the sword prices are set in order of importance... the thing they do in battle, after lots and lots of testing with jeroniom the prices were set like that, from  100gc runefang, to 500 the skabrash, dont forget cidhasley that the swords special attack works only, and only for the weilder of the sword, not to all the regiment and remember that if the captaion of regiment is fighting against other captain of enemy regiment, the magic atack disapear because the captain is the last unit that dies...

see, your orc shaman cost 660 (good price imo), lvl2 cost 990 (330 more).
how it less powerfull than wand of jet?


720 to 1080 for firemage = 360 diffirience (btw i could be more, firemage gain way more than GS shaman). no point in getting WOJ for 500gc...

_____

i see you updated UD.
good.

1) decrease scull catapuilt for 420 or even less. even with BS4 it suck i bet.
2) are yo ureally want level4 zombies for 720? i doubt it would be a good choice.
what LVl4 gives comapring to LVl1? as i know ,its +1WS, +1LS.
and considering all UD is a paper now, even though unbrekaable, its not good balanced. lvl4 too much in cost.

rest SEEMS fine.

but fore sure the hardest army for balance is UD i believe at this mode, cause every1 is unbrekabale is good but with skeelton flag.. its hard to sa y what will happen in battle.

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/627/yoramiro.jpg)

:O stop making that! imagine if i put a photo of my self naked in your mod thread and saying that mi mod is the best?

i dare you man.. i double dare you

I enjoy this Lordbraprus vs Wkurwiony (joking obviously).--> the dirty publicity is funny.

When Wkurwiony has a good chance of being chosen for Month, my brother suddenly appears with his Version .2 too :)

Yes, bit sad for Wkur, but nowadays many members have their "own" Ruleset, and its becoming difficult to be chosen, I heard even CidHalsey is making his own Ruleset for future, so...

If we are enough organized or good willing to play Dark Omen that much, I immediatly suggest to open "Middle Month" Tournaments. I GIVE my word to play, since i still enjoy this game.

But.. it will depend on the others to show up at middle month if they have spare time, time for signing up 2 weeks before...

This way for current "End Month" Tournaments, the time to sign up will be after 14-15th of each month, making the 1st of each month the start to sign up for Middle month tournament.

Otherwise, some Rulesets will NEVER have a chance-again, Im thinking in BTTR; RESTRICT; 9k/30, 5k/15?
Still same Organization, chosen ruleset cant be choosen for next Tournament, would be 2 weeks cooldown.

LAST CHANGES , skeleton horsmen are 720-1080-1440 (old was 660-990-1320)

and scorpions have been removed, reason: they are not anymore in orc army list in 7th edition, who replace them? well the 12/12 spiders and the 6/6 snotlins and snotling wagonet, they all togheter have the same, and better role that scorpions have/had.

we played with itlerion 6 battles yesterday, i think following changes should be done:

bears/kngits to 750 gc
orcs ballista now really good. increase it to 440

ogres to 750 (see, they like cavalry but cause fear and have good TO)

also remove spell blade wind, vs lower WS as it tends to be at 7th edition, this spell ownz

after some more battles i think orc ballista to 470, ogres to 840, mrcenary sword artifact to 200. also potion of strenght to 150 i think...

now it have been fixed alavet :) ogres had an mistake of mine, they had "cause terror" jajaja and inmune to fear, they only have CAUSE FEAR so, the price stills 660

to the editing armies rules i add this one

YOU CAN REPETEAT UP TO 2 TIMES : BLOOD DRAGON, TREEMAN and TROLL

ouh yeah you aply that because my list 3 bood dragon, 3 skeleton horsemen and 1 vampires horsemen CRUSH you!